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494 O t. T you know me. For Monday may 7 2018 it's time for this week's edition of the bee cast a weekly
discussion about the news in issues facing marketers today, your house Bob nor thanks for joining us. Simplicity is the driving force of marketing. We take the complex problems of business and reduce them to simple actionable solutions. But that's the wrong approach, is complexity. The better solution for
complexity tonight will discuss also the inherent problems of over the top, unpacking a bold move by the Conan show. Whether bots can make us more strategic. Plus this week's add fell five. That's the lineup. Lets me tonight's panel. Thanks for joining us for this week's being cast on Bob, nor
and with me on the panel for this evening, we start with the supervisor at the innovations scowled author, speaker, mister Joseph Jaffe is back. Hi, Joe. How about now I heard through the grapevine and bike gripe, fine. I mean, Skype. That it's your birthday today is my birthday, so happy birthday to me. So without further ado, I'm I'm gonna hijack your show off the bat and sink [laughter]. Okay.
You just give me an Amazon gift card or something [laughter]. [laughter]. Thank you very much. No. Also with us, we have the chief strategy officer at 70 out of Scottsdale, Arizona authors, speaker, mister atom, piano atom. Hi, Bob, how are you? Happy birthday, and thank you very much for having me. Thank you for being on the program first time. Glad to have yawn. Now finally, we have the C e. O of red thread message strategist in
consultant and much sought after speaker, MS Thompson Webster, high temps, and they're happy birthday. Early said I went gift cards notes, no songs [laughter]. That's what you again. [laughter]. Well, let's get right into the topics on first up. I read an interesting report from the complexity symposium interesting name for a symposium, but you'll understand the minute. It happened in Rhode Island this past week, and it kind of
rock my world, business and marketing and advertising in particular herbs suggest with simplifying business problems down to their core and in developing simple, easy, understandable solutions that address these needs. But with technology racing ahead in the marketing environment, growing more individualized personalized, some question, whether simple solutions or the answers any longer. Sergio, how our mission as marketers now evolved into embracing
complexity without the safety net of simple guiding principles to bring us to solutions. I mean, this is a lot to unpack and my mind still really I've got a lot of thoughts on it, but I want to get your thoughts first. So what are you thinking? Well, I was completely confused and didn't understand it at all, just a complex for me. But I wonder that's not true [laughter] upon further reflection, look, I love this topic and. It actually reminds me of this little this saying that
I that I often use when when I talk to market as I say, simple, not simplistic complex, not complicated, and it's a come complex, not complicated. That that in of itself says a lot more than I was even hoping to hear from cigarette. I'm out I'm basically [laughter] George kostanza and on the high, but but but I think it demonstrates I mean, for so long as market is. We've
all been into simplifying will oversimplifying the whole process of building brands and and ultimately going to market everything was as simplistic as possible in terms of shipping a 30 second spot to the three networks. And and that's how easy it was. And what's obviously happened? Thanks to technology. I mean, even going back to the to digital right? And thinking about online advertising and and how market has had kind of being trapped in this. This quad
Meyer of of versioning, the same piece of creative 33000 ways from Sunday. And so it in a way we've been trapped between a rock and a hard place trying now, and almost looking at technology as a false God to be able to automate. I know we're going to be talking about something like that the shortly to try and make life easier for us. But. The point is that that it is complex, but it doesn't have to be complicated, especially if you understand. The
intricacy and the different permutations and the different combinations of what might be possible. And on the on the flip side, the simplicity associated with it. Is the idea of an idea, the the ability to be creative to surprise, to delight and ultimate, be to connect and breakthrough. And so an insight. Can be so simple and yet doesn't have to be dumbed down to to the point where it can be
oversimplified it. So you can go really deep into this topic. I will say that won't. And I read the salsa article. It didn't gave me too much, and so I kind of almost took it in a different direction. But I agree 100% because it's as I read the article and it really didn't speak to me in and of itself. But it hinted that these really amazing new thinking. He hadn't considered before well it. Well, it did in quite a good friend of mine and a and online advertising
real tenured, which is Scott sarokin any talks about a chair and he says, you look at the chair, but then you take us, you know, you take a couple of steps back and you sites, but it's not just a chair with four legs. Where is the check positioned in the room and and and and what direction is a pointing out? And then if you take a step back, you go wise the chair then, and you look at the room in context of the building and you keep on going backwards. And I think the analogy they with business is when we
oversimplified decision when we try and create our ally, that is so short term and myopic. And we attempt to make it as binary and causal as possible. We're not recognizing that there were bigger questions and bigger implications of the decisions we make in terms of not just the campaign, but the brand, the business were the business, the organization itself, the industry were in even the world. And recognizing that these decisions have far reaching implications.
A decision today that might be an experimental gamble for a struggling retailer could actually end up creating a paradigm or a new go to market on you distribution mechanism that could potentially save the retail industry. So I mean, I think that's kind of one of the interpretations I took away from it. Let me let me turn to Adam next on this one because I think that there is a lot of complaining about the strategy portion of advertising these days. I hear it
from people who are creatives in the business in the agency world, I hear it from brands. There's this idea that strategy focus so much on some publicity ends up being almost banal that there's there's there's no real depth to the thinking is it's so focused on being simple solutions that it overlooks the problem entirely because it doesn't embrace the entire scope of what the marketing department at a brand is facing. How much are you
seeing this to be a reality in trouble within the industry? Well, let me just say from the top on wanted to [laughter] what of the people that are complaining about it. So I totally get it. The issue and Joseph, you hit it right on the head. It's all about ideas. If if we're trying to be simple but not simplistic. The reason that it gets complicated as because we don't understand or were either given the vision to understand that we don't give access to understand, or we don't
take the time which shame on us when that happens to understand the entire system and then figure out what those far reaching consequences of each action will be and bring back a realistic simplified model for our clients and for our Brown's debt. Keep it simple in a way that we're building a a campaign or building a product of building an effort. That is a streamlined is it needs to be within this greater mechanism and the complexities just growing and growing as everybody's
bolting on more and more pieces. So it's it's not an easy challenge and it's really about taking the time to figure out what can you strike from the list of things to worry about and what can't you. Thompson, you've been a marketing Liege I mean, you've been a chief marketing officer. You've had to deal with all the the many pieces that go into motion whenever you're trying to launch a kind of marketing plan for any kind of the any kind of the initiatives that you were doing. Let me ask you about the
ability of a single person, a marketing lead to manage the complexities that they're facing these days. Is it possible or is it more bell building the correct team around you and the bigger your organization is a become as becoming more and more paramo that you just have a team that you trust the team as opposed to having actual control over the many pieces that are in motion? I think you need to understand the pieces that are in motion. That's the role of any chief of anything. Is that your your
job is to understand the components of the system and how they work together? So think of it from the perspective of do I understand the interconnections, and are they healthy? Are they making sense? Are they working? And a team is there to understand the depth. So if the chief is looking at the breadth than the team is looking at the depth and in that way, each party gets to focus on on how to make things fairly simple for them. But if you try to do everything all at once, let me try to understand it completely a breath of the system plus all of it down to its
details across all the channels, the grass, Oliver segments, and are targets, of course, that's going to get complicated, but that's why it's really important to understand. How can you wear your own personal strengths are and where do where can you back that up with other people? It seems almost impossible though when you think about it because you can, you can have a certain amount of understanding of all the pieces that are in motion. And you can understand to a certain extent what all the different players you put them in, put in place, or going to be
doing to make sure that the vision is achieved, but is the vision even possible for even see a for Campbell's soup is the vision even see -able for a McDonalds that has so many different efforts going on at the same at the same point with so many different problems that are both national local and also global. Is it even possible for one person to have any kind of understanding? Are we gonna be depending more and more on ad tech and more more a machine learning to
manage these ever increasingly complex situations? Well, I think we have the ability to manage them more effectively through those things, but the situation is more complex than it ever was. We just have a greater awareness of it. Thanks [laughter]. That's the thing that we have to figure out. And so I always worked well for me and and works for my clients is is figuring out what are the essentially to figure out how can we build frameworks and not necessarily formulas
and formulas art, contextual enough. You can't adapt. It's one of the reasons why think in brand brand tag lines, for instance, in a lot of brand positioning is entirely too simplistic to echo a jealous saying, we have to figure out what is it that. That in what are the underlying levers, kind of what are the pillars upon which things are functioning? Why does the company do it? It does not just a single like Simon sin- qui- but actually in
why does it do what it does in the way that it does it for specific pieces of the market? And I think it's a it's been really interesting is the advent of all the attack and all the data and all the information is just allowed us to understand that all the different levels at which we can be simple. But to your question, can one person understand at all? W- not to the detail level, but can can somebody in one person understand and be responsible for making sure the company and brand is
delivering on this foundation, all elements, debt, that drive when it dies. Yeah. And I think if you don't have that, that's where he does work brands go off the rails. I was. I was thinking. Well, first of all, it's it's an end scenarios while which makes it a little bit more complex, but I was thinking of you put these two together and you have. I some simple complexity or or complex simplicity, and then I realized that that's just probably Dan is next book [laughter] but
but. But the thing is that, you know, it's a key point that these two are not mutually exclusive. And you know, to add to this idea of h r and talent. The articles said, talks about a report, the features of learning report that actually talks about four skills that are going to be most valued bites. Chew. Around the world. So when you actually read them the first time that unsound that. Radical, they're critical thinking problem solving.
Communication and collaboration, and then creativity and innovation. And that to me says will though should be skills that we have today. But then it says, you know, together those skills would would kind of combine in order to to create more ambitious goals by adding complexity to the thought process. And then I looked at that. That's still not telling me what I need to know. But then I had like an a hot which is. This is just really kind of best described as the life of an entrepreneur or a start
up. Their ability to what, if the ability to to be creative and lateral in their thinking and recognize that they may end up in a very, very different place. From the one that they started, and it's the kind of scenario planning and contingency planning that I think really were talking about. One is planned for a multitude of scenarios. And what if scenarios and really kind of create much more complex. I love what tens and stated in
terms of this idea of frameworks as opposed to formulas, but then also be prepared. Through through some kind of process or guidelines to be able to act quickly decisively and intelligently in terms of adapting to unforeseen an unexpected market conditions, you know, I agree with that to an extent, but I have a problem with depending upon frameworks. I've only said frameworks for the new astrology. You know, they work nine time of six times out
of 10 and we give them all the credit. And then when they fail, we make excuses for them because somehow they just didn't effectively deal with the problem that one time. And I am a little bit concerned about depending entirely upon frameworks as opposed to dealing with each problem individually, which. You know, it's a nice to have solution, but it becomes increasingly possible in increasingly impossible in a complex world. So it doesn't have increasingly impossible to deal with the problem by
problem and increasingly complex world to unless you have some baseline. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's it's impossible to handle things case by case in an increasingly complex world, right? And it's like, so where is the happy medium between depending upon a framework which is right most of the time, but can be disastrously wrong sometimes as opposed to dealing with each individual problem individually and uniquely and getting the problem solve,
but making it scalable? Is that like a dependence upon a I to make that hap-. I don't think so, and I think my perception of frameworks is kind of understanding that can corporate agreement that this is in these are who we these are the people whom we serve. This is what I've only sell for them. This is the thing that we help them achieve. This is these are the perspective that we as a company take here are our courtrooms and beliefs, and I think if people are
well versed in those kinds of things, then it isn't something that should ever lead you to disastrous handling of a particular situation. It's when people get away from those fundamental. Kind of elements of code that drive Hal company. It manifests in the marketplace. It's when people get away from that. They try to operate away from that, that you those mistakes exist. And a I just helps you I think, validate the data and and be
an outside check on what you're seeing. But I think that if with the complexities much. Ever more important to understand, what are the things that do not change or for your company should not change over time, and those are those. Those are those. Those are the commands in the operating system. I love. I love that because that that goes very, very close to what Dave gray always said, Dave gray wrote the book that connected company. And I know a few other people have a spouse, the connected company, this pod based
approach to. Dealing with an organization where you have some core truths about the organization that are managed by an executive team, but the power, the true power. And the brand lies within each of these different operating pods so that you can be able to deal with problems uniquely as they show up. In a way, that is adhering to the basic principles of the entire corporation. I. And also, you know, not that this topic is about
frameworks per se. But one of the things that that I've always thought of is the framework is the framework is actually shouldn't have to be a stifling or confining. If you can operate deliberately within the framework. And so having those those. God, God rails, et cetera can can prove to be incredibly empowering and powerful. On an example, that just jumps into my mind is, is the one that's always spoken about for the Ritz Carlton, where
any employee at the Ritz Carlton, any employee from the lowest of the low in terms of someone who might have the most menial job or at the Ritz Carlton, they're empowered to spend up to $2000 on a customer without getting any permission from their manager Zappos as the same things up as maybe not that about $2000 Mark. But yeah, it gets interesting where it gets interesting. They still have to
be accountable ultimate the and submit their their reports, if it if it turns out that that they abused. You know there there that privilege will they abuse that power? I think it would be taken away from them, but the when you can actually create that mechanism to allow people to make those decisions for themselves, whether a helps us the weather is just your God given commonsense brain incredible things are are are are possible. And sometimes the
complexity is you can't imagine that someone's going to be standing outside hailing a cab or a new girl, whatever, and a truck comes pasta hits. You know, it's pouring with rain hits, hits some mud, and now someone's this ruined and there about to go into an important pitch. To have someone come and say, you know what? Come into the clothing boutique. And we'll get you out and design a gear, and you can go to your meeting and and and knock him dead. And that creates a customer for life.
Yeah, and we're we've been circling around this, this idea that if we have these guiding principles, whether it's the $2000 rule or whether tabs on you had reference earlier, the kind of framework for which people can operate in within the within the brand, knowing understanding the brand, understanding the mission, the vision of values, when those things are really nailed down, then it doesn't matter it, it minimizes would not that it doesn't matter, but it minimizes summit a complex
interactions and complex things that happened where. As technology and marketing are increasingly overlapping, we're seeing from our clients, we're seeing a lot of people from all over the organization, bringing in solutions that are small tack, or add tack toward unique things in plugging him into the system. And nobody's really sure they're even Nair. But if there's a guidance internally that this is how this brand operates and missus the kinds of decisions we make, or you're empowered to do this or that
based on it to withhold our vision and values than people make the right decision. And that reduces complexity, at least on one front at internal, you can kind of sleep at night knowing, okay, at least the people inside the building or the buildings. Are all moving in the same direction and not just running around like like a zoo and a moment of follow up with you on that. Because one of my last questions I had written down about this topic was the role of the C
m. O. Does this put a premium on the ability of a CEO to recruit and to manage employees, and to essentially have an H r. sensibility to the way that they're dealing with their department as opposed to just being purely a marketing. Professional. Is more important to be good in the HR disciplined than it is to be could've marketing essentially to be a good C m. O in the ever complex and
growing complexity of marketing today. I mean, what's your thoughts? Yeah, right. The way that I always thought about it was that I could I could always train someone in its scale, but I couldn't train a mindset. And so as as as the same own as I would hire my team, as I was looking for people who had the kind of critical thinking, the kind of problem solving skills that I was looking for because maybe there was a channel they didn't understand or a certain thing they needed to do. But you know.
When it comes down to it, a lot of the mechanics of marketing herb pretty simple. I mean, maybe one step above monkey. I don't know what the hard part of marketing marketing is. The thinking about the marketing, it's being sensitive to what is it the company needs to have happened? What do the. What do the customers need to have happen? And marketing is in this unique position of needing to translate both directions and that takes a certain kind of mind set in a certain kind of
ethos of how to someone teas particular situation. And so. Yes, as all of these things get more and more complex, I think that becomes ever more important, but I would argue that a great SAMA was always hiring that way. More than anything else. Anything to add to that he was onslaught. [laughter] because we're who will get back to send him into silence. I think you have all check back on them in
just a minute. Adam you there. I'm here, I'm sorry [laughter] stunned an asylum. Well, we're going to move on any way to the next topic in just a minute. We're going to talk about over the top and how all the digital publishers seemed to be completely going all we on this particular subject. We'll get to that in just a minute. But first I have an important announcement. Its mother's day is coming up. Mother's day is next weekend when we were recording
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cards than it didn't work. So I'm not so sure this is going to work for you, but I hope it is. I hope everybody out there's going to send you a case of eleven natural because it'll make my sponsor extremely happy [laughter]. Well anyway, let's move into the next topic. Publishers at the new fronts have gone all in on over the top. The idea of cutting out cable carriage fees once once pure Hersey. Now, the power is shifted in nearly every continent publisher, whether online or off line is actively offering or working
towards some kind of over the top solution. But Adam is o t t the holy grail, but networks and publishers think that it is or just the beginning of some kind of long March and user confusion in even greater content discovery problems, which as we all know is the achilles heel of content online is becoming so much harder. So what you're thinking on over the top. Wow, we were just talking about complexity and welcome back complexity again.
[laughter] method to my madness and pick these topics, but go ahead. The I use a rope coop and every time I log onto that thing or fired up the there's another three channels on there. I don't know what they are every now and then I'll click on 1 and try to figure out what kind of shows I can get. So as a viewer, I have one perspective. But if we look at it from the publisher side, the new fronts in 20 17 had over 30 participants this year they were down to sixteen. The sleet was two
weeks long for last year's do fronts. This week goes down this year. It was down to 1 and 2 of the most interesting publishers around Bloomberg. Who is a publisher that I'd watch very closely because of all the interesting moves they make. And vice actually did a weird end around you. They didn't participate in the new fronts, but they did cheese out programming and opportunities for advertisers through some kind of, interestingly timed events. So. I guess we have to remember about the new Frances.
Dear modeled after the up fronts, but it's essentially a sales event for I b. in its members. And I don't know about you guys, but as I've tried to meet new clients and network and sell things in people really back away from that, they don't want to be sold to. So I think the new fronts is floundering a bit because. But nobody nobody wanted to necessarily agree with that premise. I mean, as far as the new fronts, the new fronts were modeled after the up-front, which are all about selling to the media buyers. So
I think that there's nothing wrong with the selling portion, but I do see that the new friends have. An ongoing problem we kind of discussed this last week's don't want to delve too deeply into this, but essentially the new fronts are experiencing the same thing that the digital advertising agencies experience. Digital advertising went off into its little ghetto and and created a world where it existed. But then suddenly the grew to the point where they needed to abandon that space and enter the mainstream in order to get agency of record accounts.
And I think that a lot of digital publishers. Are starting to meet in the middle with off-line publishers who are kind of coming online and they're finding a new way to combine together, and it's more about getting the ad dollars the primary ad dollars than it is about promoting digital verses off line content. I mean it's it's more about the fact that all content will be streaming at 1 point or another. And so putting yourself into us
segregated area called the new fronts isn't really beneficial to you anymore. So I can see why over the top has become the rallying cry of all these content publishers. Because it gives you direct access to your audience, it gives you. Direct access to the people who are actually watching the content consuming the content and ultimately seeing the advertising that's a greater portion of the pie. You're not as career content creators
being forced to go to some kind of distribution network, like a cable company or broadcast network. You've got control of the pipes, but it seems to me that if you get everybody playing in the space, the complexity makes it so they. Nobody wins anymore, because there's only going to be a few players that can rise to the top. In the attention of the of the public at large, I mean, so that's. That's my basic premise of any any thoughts on that?
No, I'm in a 100% agreed as a publisher really, where else can you go? I don't think it's a it's a choice they're making at this point. I think the brave brands have already done that. They've already made that choice now. It's kind of like if we want to survive, we have to figure out those direct ways to get to consumers and provide attribution numbers to advertisers. If you look at what happened with the Esquire brand getting slaughtered with carriage costs and getting pulled ultimately from satellite,
they weren't able to stay on the air because because of those carriage Cosimo cable companies were doing fled viewers and viewer complexity. Yes, it's nice to have a direct pipe from an advertiser to a an individual. But I don't know if viewers are going to show up in the numbers that advertisers need to make it work. And I can't say most publishers in the digital spacer doing such a great job selling advertising that I put a ton of faith in their ability at the over the top level, either. Thomson
publishers are kind of an Iraq rock between a hard place. You know, they've they've got a situation where they need to be creating some kind of solution to get them into the streaming space, especially the all flying players in the on line players were looking at over the top solutions to take them into living rooms as opposed to just being on computers. So it seems like they've gotta do this. They've got to play with the within the space.
Is there a better choice out there? Is this the only road available? And is this something that you just got to make your peace with and do if you are content publisher these days? I I think you've got to make your peace with it and do it. I mean it's it was fascinating land, Tom, an hour talking about the topics for its eight. Now we it occurred to us that we had a really interesting case study here at home, which is this morning via Facebook. We saw two different clips from
last night, Saturday Night Live, which of course your bracket with ads on either side. And then we then we went and watched what we had recorded on T v. last night, but skip through all the ads. And yes, of course you could have access it on who and watched it with other ads built in. But I mean, that's it. I think what's increasingly happening is, is they these publishers have to find a way to get get get the ads in front of people. And so they have they have to
figure this out and they have to be there. Joe anything that before we move on and you last thoughts on the situation with over the top, I knew you weren't necessarily [laughter]. Wow. Give you some first thoughts on what I think if if we frame this topic through the lens of of again, simple and complex, the the reality is that and the the real the real simple truth
is that the deluge in the quantity of interrupt of 30 second spots is, is going away always declining precipitously. And and the weather was thirteen of seventeen minutes of advertising per one hour of programming. Those days are over. And it's interesting to me to see how every one of the major networks, whether it's broadcast or cable,
is looking to create their direct to consume a solution. And in some cases and I know we've discussed this before C b. S has attempted as as would you know the arrogant c, b via comes in C b. s.'s and Disney's to attempt to to charge and and put content. Into a payroll. And so what we're ready all are looking at is a whole landscape reshuffle. And in some cases,
there is a simplicity all of. You know, just like A b. c. B s. and N b. C now now we all must look at Hulu net flicks maybe Amazon even as as kind of a big three. On the other hand, you're looking at a super fragmentation as well. Consumers are in control and consumers while Timothy choose, but there's a real danger in terms of trying to it in terms of everybody trying to own and control there. There there, you know. Oh,
T t. solution. That several publishes might be completely left behind because. Consumers just on going to be able to sign up, subscribe, pay, and figure out a way to monetize oldest content there isn't that? That's exactly. That's exactly my point, yeah, absolutely. Good. And so, and so you're between a real rock and a hard place in terms of figuring out, you know, do shack of which devil do you check up with? You know, the rest of evils do shack
up with with the cable companies, but recognizing that people cut in the cold. Increasingly, so or do you do do align yourself with one of the new players? Do you attempt to go it alone and other companies, the cable companies allowed for a lot of subpar content to exist because it was supported by the really great content. Good. Because Kibble companies force you to buy at all in a bundle. And I think that over the top actually being
seems like it's a great solution for consumers because you only by the content you want, but you end up spending even more money. And I'm wondering if in the end, you're going to see a backlash towards some kind of digital streaming. Cable company tug solution like the who lose a net flicks of the world will really went out in the end as opposed to any kind of over the top solution from an individual network. Because eventually consumers are gonna go, I'm not getting all the content. I need to entertain me because it's too expensive to buy
all these different networks. Right. And I just as two too personal examples. I'm a Star Trek fan. But I have not seen one episode of the new Star Trek because I refuse to pay C b. S to to foot for the privilege of watching that about at the same time. I'm very interested in the headman style and I just downloaded and paid for the entice series, not through Hutu but through actions. And I just I mean, I chose to do that. I'm sure some
people in the hope of asleep. And I'm sure it's worked for who. Is that had mates? Tell us become an anchor tenant for say, like a game of thrones or a sopranos to H b. O you just can't admit that who is actually good. Now you for being such an anti who person for so long [laughter]. But I can't tell you that I that hopefully that got some of my money for the head made style. Well, moving on another announcement of that, this week's
television meets digital fronts was the move by T b. S to shorten Conan, the Conan O'Brien show to 30 minutes on the network. While expanding as digital only content offering. Thomson from an advertising perspective, what is the game that they're playing here? What's the the long game in trying to reduce the footprint of conant on on the cable network as opposed to increasing the networks exposure online? Is it more of this over the top type
movement or the tried to? I would see is a continuation, frankly, the previous discussion I mean, I think that that at least where we are right now, people are conditioned to skip ads on television and where a little bit though, not a lot, a little bit more tolerant. The ads were watching on a computer or premise stream. And so I think that that's what I think that's what they're counting on, but there are also counting on I think the fact that the super fans will go for more and there is this.
I want to see this other thing. So I came back to Saturday Night Live. It's always interesting to me how often we end up and going to watch the cut scenes in which means now exposed to not only the advertisement that we might have been subject to because we watched it on Hulu or on T though or live. But now we're going to go as object ourselves even more in order to see the other staff because that's those at the fans. So you combine that with the discussion we're having with our first topic and you start to get it starts to get very interesting about
how precisely. Advertisers can can target specific people as Pacific programs, and the intersection between the two. So I find it really fascinating thing. And then comments have been very, very savvy about how he's integrated online on air and alive events. And I'm just I'm really intrigued by that. I think that there is I think there's we're seeing a little bit. I think if it feels very familiar to me, the way that
a lot of music performers live music, the concerts now have been have been the main drivers that that's that's the main driver of money because that's the that's the rare experience. And so it's just interesting to me, is it going to go velvet, rope is going to do any of it is going to be things that are open, potentially going to kinda membership site. Even. But I just think it's very intriguing to see how he's experimenting with where different people are and how they interact.
And building on the conversation we just had about. Oh, t- t- and I totally cannot be the only person. It's like hearing that awful clubs down from the nineties like any time we say [laughter]. You're not that has Jonathan soccer was just on last week and made the same exact joke [laughter]. Certain age. And I'm not admitting that I am. But I'm just saying. I am just very intrigued by it. I think it's I think I think the smart advertisers right now are the
ones that are experimenting. They're experimenting with all the different forms, and I think that they're taking the data. If they're smart, they're taking the data and saying, for the people that we serve for the people that we're trying to target, you know, what's the best necks and what's it? What's what's most interesting about what's most interesting about the cone and move for me is that he's not doing what most of the late night show hosts are doing, which is repurposing the online, the off-line continent, for online purposes. What he's trying to do is create
on- online only content and try to make that more valuable than the cable network program programming. So I mean, it's a it's a real big risk and a lot of ways because it's it's saying that most of the original content that we're going to be producing is being produced for digital distribution only. That's that's a big vote of confidence, or it's a big risk. I'm not sure which Jo you were going to say something oh festival or I can keep hearing in my
in my head is Jonathan Sackett. So [laughter] all of us feel the same way. John. It's [laughter] on the show. And I love this new for many reasons, and I think it's probably important to recognize that there is. Probably a very pragmatic cost saving. Associated with making this decision going 30 30 and splitting at the way they are. But
over and above that and it could be based on on talent. And then just based on on. Costs and but, but I think at the same time I agree with you that the reality is there is so much sameness today. And in this new era of of the there are no late not wars anymore way. All of these guys with its coal barrel or of fallow Kimmel. They all seem to be kind of collaborating with each other and supporting one
another. Recognizing that the rising tide floats all boats, right? The enemy of my enemies, my friend and in this case, the real enemy is, is probably you know me [laughter] but I but I think in this particular case, he's going to focus on a certain quality and a certain audience and then recognized that he can probably started. Very, very different things. In a in an online owning a digital environment
to that may allow him to also evolve his brand. And he's also tick voice. So I don't see any downside with this at all. I am we've seen other models of in bull more does it as well way where he has his over time. You know, and I'm just angry. And because I made the suggestion when he first got fired from N b. C I mean, I was a really big fan of the the section, the sector out there in the online space that was talking about that maybe he would go to
YouTube in, take showed show YouTube and be the first digital only late night. Talk show. And it seems like if he had done it like 10 years ago, it would have been much more impactful that it's going to be now. And that's the problem. It feels like it's a little too little little to lay. Do you think it would have worked? Had he done with it would have been just ahead. They would've you would've made more money because YouTube was willing to spend the cash on him and it would have continued. It would have gone on and
on. And it would have been just as successful as what he's getting out of TBS tone Bob, I'm tracking with you 100% because I just don't remember, don't forget when he went to T b. S after getting fired and the whole hash tag team cocoa thing happened, they had invested in a four hour block with him. A couple of late night shows that kind of built up. So things have changed very quickly in that space because of the success of N b. C and C b. S and a B c. shows. To
drive this. But I like that they are not just cutting beat, and I don't know if that's a contractual thing or what. And I agree that his he will be able to experiment. I don't know if there's too many people that would be able to improve their show by going online, but I have a feeling he'll be freed from some of the shackles and it will actually he'll be one of those performers that thrives there because it is off beat writing and sense of humor. And I think it'll help T b. S too, I believe in the long run because I think they are looking for a beachhead in the digital space
and haven't really been able to figure it out. They did a couple of test shows over the past three or four years, but this is something with a with a brand that people recognize that you may actually start downloading like those cut scenes from SNL where it's worth logging on cause I know I'm going to get if I download this or I watch it all at least get some smoke out at something shareable atom, girlhood Thompson, you're going to say, so just intrigued you really by let feels very much like coning. Owning is
audience is on ways basically starting to say, I can does it feel to some extent like that. He's kind of saying that I can take my people with me. I mean that I think that benefit of team cocoa is, is the fact that he can really start to build up even more devoted following that he has. And it's I think there's there's something quite quite empowering and amazing there about an entertainer being able to say, listen night I can I actually know where my people are and and I
can I can take them with me someplace else, and I know it's not it's not an anti t b s thing that I just find it very interesting. It almost feels like he's starting to lay the groundwork for that kind of larger move. I just though he's doing a tunnel. I just think he's doing a too late. I mean, I think that if he had done this, when he got fired from N b. C we would be talking a much different game now about the online space because it would have been a power for move. He has had that audience if anything, that C b. S move as eroded his support.
And I think that that's that's been detrimental. Overall, he's coming into this game a little bit too late to be effective. And that's that's the problem. I'm wondering how much this move Adam is going to inspire the other networks and the other late night show host to consider similar moves. And will that delude the effort on the part of team cocoa to may be successful in doing this? Well, if you start putting the money of of N b. C and a Jimmy Fallon is not shying away. He's been
putting stuff out on Hulu. And YouTube just clip after clip after clip every night and his show is very bite. Sized everything he's doing is is designed to be very short and shareable content bits. So he's maybe one step ahead even though it's all coming through T v. with some minor clips off, he's not taking a big step that Conan is taking, but I think Jimmy Fallon is already really doing us. And have been has been doing it for a while. They just didn't announce it in the same way that t b s is this. I don't
know what CBS is done. Maybe a hedge more than a a bold move in. And I agree. It's probably three or four years too late to be. The pioneering Conan O'Brien is stepping out it's maybe more. Kinda covering your mutt necessities, I think what you're saying is necessity is the mother of invention, but but but but we'll see. I mean, I'm still I'm still taking the other side of the of the argument, which is he made the transition. He bolt hole
revolts he's base or his army of over loyalty votes, ease and now. And now he is being a little bit innovative, whether that's because of necessity or just because of experimentation. I mean, it's probably the form as opposed to the ladder, but but I don't know that it's I don't know that he's too light. In fact, I think once again, it may prove to be maybe a little bit too early for something like
that, but I think the timing is right. Well, moving onto our final topic boycotts are synonymous with marketing efficiency. They're are all about reducing costs and amplifying value, but are they also inspiring marketers to think more strategically? It's an interesting thought pros by an article. I read this week, Joe, but always get lumped into marketing laziness more talking about the use of bots in the average marketing world situation. Boy, I'm really doing a terrible job with
setting this up, or they actually causing us to think more critically though about how brands interact with their consumers. What's your thoughts on boxes of possible that they could actually be a cause for making us to think more critically, or are they really just the laziness tool that we've always been making fun of them for. I mean, I think this topic is completely lazy in of itself [laughter] explaining why I'm saying that because first of all it
was at the link was to add can. And apparently I had to register to join the community, which I thought I was a part of them. So that took me by now. And then reading the article I mean, maybe I just took this away from the article, but really what the article was saying is because lots of doing the following things which as you know, noxious bought, but it was about ready automation. And and optimization of processes it was freeing market is up to
be more strategic, said wasn't as if as if the bought stem cells were making market as most strategic, it was the fact that because all of these processes were being automated and simplified, sorry, to have to go back to the topic. That was free market. A market is up to two. Have more time to think strategically, but you know stupid is a stupid does. If you're lazy and stupid, you knock it and you have more free time on your on your hands. You probably just going to spend it in a plank candy crush more
often. But I love the I love the thought that wasn't expressed in the article, which is more to my point, which is when when you have an interaction between a customer and a I bought. You're getting all kinds of interesting data hoax in data input that you're not getting from the individuals from real individuals, interact you with those same people online. You know, you're getting. Some kind of data feedback that can potentially make us
smarter about how we deal with customer service. How we deal with our customers, bringing products to market. It seems like it could be a rich environment for shaping how we deal with the strategic questions when we're going forward and planning out a marketing campaign. That's really interesting to me. I don't know whether or not. Thinking too deeply and whether or not it's actually possible, but it sounds to me like a great opportunity for strategists. To get a
deeper understanding of our audience at just had I mean, thoughts can be thought of. And conceived and implemented strategically as well. And based on the investments applied in terms of being able to copy. And I've been playing around with this a I bought. That that is meant to become a companion almost like a I guess the equivalent of a Tamagotchi like those old, those
toys that I remembered Tamagotchi. I had one [laughter]. He was the soundtrack for that by the way [laughter] to believe it. So this one's called replicating. You can look it up and and so I played with it for a while and and it was kind of interesting and it was trying to learn, you know, my behavior and model and my likes and my preferences. But the more used to just the more it seemed like it was completely conceived by a lazy market. Oh, by
lazy company, or maybe I just wasn't using a property. And and the crowning glory for me is I took a photo of a colleague who who is a male and his bold. And the response I got from my replica bought was I'm sorry, is she sick? Foot. Okay, that that's weird. I mean, I mean a bold man doesn't have to be a sick man. He just doesn't have hair, but it was. It was a complete disconnect. And so I think. Again, you know, you point
his corrective if all this incredible data's coming back and you can mind the types of questions that people are asking. Of course, that's going to provide new insights, but wouldn't it even be better to make sure that when they are asking these questions you have the right on says for them as opposed to, you know, I don't understand why don't know how to do that. Will this dozen or or just some kind of a road response, which is kind of what you might get from from using your voice activated, Google device? So I don't know that
there's a macho sense. Adam, any less thoughts on this topic. No, I think Joe covered it pretty well. I mean, we say garbage in, garbage out. So few, if you're using a strategic mindset to program the box and you have a intelligent way to collect the data, then you'll get good stuff. And if you are living a lazy lifestyle, I think you're going to get lazy results. But at no everybody wants to get the results. It's just about taken time or having the time to make that plan.
Well, with that, it's time for the ad fell five but before we get to that segment of the show, I do want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guests again and allow them the each to a shameless plug starting with Joe Jaffe you can find him at innovations. I'm sorry. No true. A auto, correct has changed your. So tell us what you are and tell us a little bit about what you're doing, but you can always you can find me the way that you've always found me
Jackie juice on Twitter and and the actual innovation Scott website is the innovations scout.com. But what I actually wanted to plug is innovation scout is launching a a series called the edge and. The age is actually a combination of different touch points, but by launching with with a series of weather noise and is one coming up. In fact, it's going to be this Wednesday on ironically, because it
just discussing Google on voice and speech recognition. And so it's free, and if you want to register and. You want to hear from some cutting edge experts and fold beat as in the space, including Corey, trypho letty amongst other people you can. I'll supply guests the euro to you, Bob, and you can and you can put it on the show nuts. Wonderful. That's fantastic. So definitely check that out. Next up. We have
Adam peer. No, you can find him at 70 dotcom. That's essay A t. y..com. Tell us what's going on in your world out, what would you like to promote? Al boy, this is this. I'm not good at shameless promotion, but I'll do my best. I have my book under think it is out now. It is kind of a meditation on simplifying gone back to topic won the strategic process. As a strategy officer at sandy, I realize it was underwhelming amount of trading materials out there and starting to
collect that stuff and build a training curriculum. I had realised, oh, I could put this in book form and really get it into the hands of people that need it, that lack that training and and have a marketing guidebook could they can always referred back to you. So really enjoying the feedback I'm getting from people as they read that book. Oh, that's amazing. That's really amazing. So they can find that it's anti aware we're can they find that they can find that at Amazon or wherever fine books are sold on line. Wonderful, wonderful. And last, but not least
Thompson Webster, you can find her attempts in webster.com. You can also find her a red Scott. Is that correct? You told me the URL temps Webster dotcom and so temps Webster dotcom what would you like to promote Thompson? I've got what I call a red thread weekend coming up in New York may 18 and 19. So that's sir, folks who are trying to figure out what they're big idea is in how to build it so that people see it as big as they do. But that sounds great. So I'd
love to hear more so definitely give me the information off line. And as for me for more information about me or the show visit, the being cast are calm there, you can find a complete show car or show archive. You can find out how to consult with me. You can even find out how to advertise on the program, so check it all out@the being cast.com. Don't forget the Serbs the transcription service. And that that we now provide through transcribed me dotcom go to transcribe me dotcom sluggish being cast, and they're going to give you a special discount on services.
Just because you're a listener of the show. I also have a couple of speaking things coming up. I'm going to be a make a living event in New York, which is coming up in just a couple of weeks. So check that out. Love to see you in Caroline's when we do that. It's a great event. And also we've got the chief digital officer event that's coming up at the end of the month. I'm going to be at that event, not speaking below. Would love to check up with you and meet you if you'd like to come to
the event. Definitely go to the chief digital officer website and registered today. And now it's time for the ad fell five or run down of the lowest moments in marketing advertising and public relations from the last week. And first up come you west, went on a rampage at the offices of teams E in which among other pronouncements, he claimed slavery was the choice Joe to which Adidas his business partner responded by saying that they didn't agree with his remarks. I'm just kind of
a little bit surprised that the lacklustre response from a deed us I mean, way to take a stand here. This guy went off the rails and they don't know how to handle it. Look, the only way I could respond to to this topic is if he watched weekend update on on SNL they got to the news and they just looked at it that way. Cause of past. I know there was such a great thing by Michael J fantastic. Now, next up bad week for
taxi owes on earning calls. First Evans Spiegel of snap got hammered for his inability to communicate what exactly his company's vision was. I love the answer was he was giving resulting in a precipitous stock decline following the call and next Alon must berated analysts on the tesla earnings call for asking the wrong kinds of questions. Taps resulting in a fall for his company's stock price. What is in the water out in California going on right now? It's just seems like
nobody knows how to handle and earnings call anymore [laughter]. My goodness, yes. It's the I think it must be a syndrome that happens post. I P l. matter now, I hope there is a vaccine. So as well. Now, Twitter announced that it discovered it was storing user passwords in playing tax viewable by anyone atom who chose to look for it. I'm thinking, oh, it's great that they found this and it's great that they came clean on it before it became a big
issue. But at the same time it's a big issue [laughter]. Yeah, it was nice that they came forward, but it was kind of ironic because I think everybody's password was password anyway. That big of a difference. Absolutely. Now, for the first time in the U k. online ad complaints avowed pace T v. complaints, Joe, hooray. Finally, the recognition that digital Admiral has been looking for, we actually sucked more than television.
Exactly, let's just see how low we can go. So congratulations digital people, we've finally arrived. I'll meet you at the bottom of the barrel. I agree, no last but not least. The American advertising federation this past week decided to kick Bill Cosby out of the hall of fame. Which begs the question Thompson, why was Bill Cosby still in there in the first place? I mean, it's not like these allegations have been knew. Everybody knew that he
was guilty, and I know that a man is guilt is innocent until proven guilty. But at the same point, we knew he was guilty. What the what was the deal? You've already set it in. That was a giant legal C y. A because they weren't going to do a darn thing until a court actually positively said it otherwise, they find her a sense of the find themselves in their own type of legal hot water [laughter]. Well, have it makes me by the way that makes me
think of that Berlin. Newspaper headline in the movie Johnny dangerously. Which says. I think the villains name was Roman Moroni and it says Moroni deported to Sweden claims. He was never from there. So [laughter] we'll have something to add to this list or just want to discuss it. Comment on mine use the hash tag add fell five pound Advil, and the number five. Well, that does it for this week's
show if you'd like to subscribe to this pod cast visit our website up the being cast, a common click on the subscribe link. If you're Nigerians listener, we've also provided a direct link to the eye teens music store, or just search for the being cast in the pod cast directory of I tunes and whichever pod Gauss directory use when you subscribe, please leave observe you gotta comment of a question we'd love to hear from you. Just injured emails to being cast a G m. L dotcom opening theme was performed by Joseph Cambell
closing theme by sea jacks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob nor p- we'll be back again next week. Hope you'll join us then.
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