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BeanCast 505 Transcript

BeanCast 505: Does Nazi Pizza Still Taste Good

Date: 23-Jul-2018

Input sound file: 0505_The_BeanCast_Marketing_Podcast_Nazi_Pizza

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Bandwidth with provided by recursive squirrel, interactive transcription services provided by transcribing dotcom visit them on the web@transcribed me dotcom sluggish being cast for up to twenty-five percent off. That's transcribed me dotcom episode 500 5 does not see pizza still taste good.


For Monday, July 23rd 2018 it's time for this week's of the being cast a weekly discussion about the news than issues facing marketers today host Bob, nor thanks for joining us


advertising's built around creative genius person or select group of people who consistently turn out the award winning work, but has dependence on creative genius, enabled the culture of bed, creative process. The skulls. Also, why aging means more than ever to marketers? Judy P r.'s keeping up deals from getting done televisions, dramatic evolution. Plus this


week's that fell five. That's the lineup. Lets me to life. Thanks for joining us for this week's been cast. I'm Bob north and with me on the panel for this evening, we start with the president of marketing consultancy future 4th mister Dave Delaney pay Dave things rather than me. My pleasure. No, also with us, we have the C e. O of liquid agency mister


Scott Gardiner joins us for the first time, Scott welcome to the program. Thanks, Bob, I'm excited for my maiden, voyage on the being cast. We all have our first time [laughter] and finally, we will come back the chief consciousness officer of the conscious marketing institute, MS, Nicole Kelly Nicole. Welcome back. Thank you so much. Well, we've got a lot, the cover only going to jump right into the topics as I usually do when we record this program and first


stop. We've all heard the term creative rockstar. It's one of those terms that gets thrown around pretty liberally in the toy industry. Typically, it refers to the person or persons in the organization who continually win endless awards. And as a result, make fabulous salaries in order to prevent them from being poached by our competitors. But does this focus on a singular creative genius or group of creative genius is actually ignored the fundamental truth. The good ideas can come from


anywhere Scott, and as a result enable broken creative process of most agencies in the business. So what do you think about that? Is this enabled being feature of bad creative process or does creative genius actually play super important part of every agencies, lifestyle? Well, I think I think everyone loves Rockstars Bob, and I think especially the ones that perform on a stage usually with instruments


[laughter] I think the industry has a long history of making rock stars out of creatives leads when things are hot, and I think we'll always going to have them. But I think the business is changing quite a bit, and I think we're going to feel less of less of it than in the past. And I think there's two reason why that's happening. I think first of all, creative alone is not. Total solution these days, I mean, companies are so integrating the


strategy and digital gurus and social gurus that I I believe that we've come to more of a. It level playing field of who brings forth the ideas, and I also think we're changing time. Some of the rock star percent also led to do bad behavior in companies and in different types of cultures that I think everybody's trying to change. Do you think though that the creative genius is on the way out because over and over again, you see these big moves when you're reading the ad press, you've got


these really big names within the industry whether they're, you know, bad behavior people or good behavior, people is really irrelevant. It's just whether or not they've won big awards and they make big moves to these new agency. It seems like there's so much P r. value in having a creative rock star. The people would not one exact or face that in maybe solving their creative problems by using the people that they have. Yeah, I agree. I mean, there definitely in the headlines


in again, all the publications love to find somebody to, to put on that stage. And you know, we've seen it for years. We'd like our skis in the drug as the next person in the ones before that is interesting. I was at the small agency conference this week and Li Klaus from a day, spoke for the first time at an ad week at each cough rates. And it was interesting. He talked about 50 years a Czech day. He is, I think probably the most decorated hall of fame creatives. He talk about himself at all. He talked about.


He talked about the way they worked. He talked about Steve Jobs so they can use it. Pretty humble rock star. In my opinion, I think that's the kind of rock stars that I think we want to see out there in the industry. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. Go. No, no call you go first. Yeah, I mean, I would just say that, you know the thing about this that's always interesting is when we start talking about creative genius. There we kind of need to talk about what true creative genius is for me, that doesn't mean that you want a bunch of awards because quite frankly, that just means you have people to


submit you for awards. But true creative genius is something that can't be created, a can't be trained. And so when you have these people inside your organization that deliver magic inside your client and inside of your internal teams, relationships. The question that I would be asking is, how can I help this person? How can I support this level of incredible inside of my organization? What can I learn from this person? And then where does my zone of genius fit? Because it's


creative genius. It's typically celebrated in the industry, but there are many zones of genius that are appreciated and rewarded as well. And so instead of creating this competition against the creative genius, I think it's time that we start really supporting it, especially as we have massive changes coming into the industry where the data that we've been using to make decisions is likely to be going away, said, you know, creative genius is such a nebulous thing though. When you think about it because it's not just the fact that somebody is naturally creative and comes up with all the big


ideas. It's also a matter of whether or not you have the cool account on whether or not you have a client who's willing to be risky intake. Interesting turns in terms of their creative. I mean, that's that's the key for most successful creative executions. And quite frankly, only the rock stars are getting those account. So it's not necessarily the you need to be a rock star in order to create the the incredible, incredible creative execution.


It's more about a confluence of a whole bunch of things coming together, right? So couldn't we create a better creative process with the people that we have and still end up at the same place? I think you can have the rock star though. I mean, I think you can have the creative genius, but also that genius is also. A great leader than they can actually collaborate with teams and get insights and ideas from the team. So it's more of a collaboration Soviet while they may be the big name. They're


bringing people together from the company with different perspectives, different backgrounds, and so on, to help develop gray campaigns. Yeah, I would agree and also that it it's not. Many times I find that the actual creative genius behind something isn't the one that's being celebrated. It's not the who is the rock star. Quite frankly, it usually is the person who can take a creative idea and executed and market, and sell it into a client. And we give that creative genius a ton of credit. I agree. But a true


creative genius learns how to collaborate and cocreate amongst the team and actually execute their ideas, which many times as beyond the creative genius is ability. Okay. So so we all agree. The creative genius can play a role within the organisation that's very valuable. And obviously there's a lot of value and having a creative genius join your shop. I mean, I think Scott you is an agency leader would have to admit that when you've got a big name, creative genius, and. In how they present you with a lot of


pure value that can be then turned around in the offer to the client, but does it also enable. A kind of complacency in terms of fixing broken process within the organization and you know, how do you avoid that? How do you take the creative genius that actually enable all the creatives within an organization to perform better work? Yeah, I think it made it our situation because were almost a hybrid agency and consultancy what


we're scrambling, that line that's been discussed a lot. And he creative, definitely we want to do great creative work. We want credit leaders that are strong, they're passionate. We walked rock stars per se, but it's such a organization of collaboration at we're so heavy on the strategy side that sometimes the strategic leaders and the creative leaders are almost on such an even playing field for how we approach the work. And I do think this is what we're seeing a lot of in the in the business. And


I think Dave made a good point. We do want to love the rock star, but especially if they're a great leader, if they cultivate ideas, if they mentor, if they do a good job with customers, the aloof ones, the ones that kind of what all the orient, they allow their credit taken by the departments and collaborators at a few those by day. And they do not take an organization forward. And that comes down to the leadership of the company as well. So if it's a c. O ever


that's in charge of hiring and placing that that creative, ninja rockstar person, it's it's up to them to make sure that creative rocks are also being partnered up with the right people, the team so that they can collaborate. Someone's moving their microphone a lot. So it'd be careful about the Kennedy distributed output of creative excellence ever cope to win out though within an organization. Because it seems like there's so much about the


industry that's built around having a singular person or some kind of big name, creative director, big name, creative. Team brought in that helps us to sell our work to the clients. It's almost like there's a lot of vested interest in having this big name involved with the organization. So is there any way for you to have more of a factory type approach to create of where you don't have any big names,


but there's a serious process and a serious output of great work on a continual basis? I can't think of a single example where that's the case. I can think of people who put out decent creative. But when you 1 outstanding creative you kind of have to have this big name person who's involved with the organization and my wrong about that. Or as anybody of any examples of some work. I mean, Nicole, what's your what's your take on that


particular position? Yeah, thank you. I mean, so I have experienced inside inside an agency environment as well as inside a client where we were able to create a flow stay of created genius across a twenty-five 30 person team. And it was because we started to take a look at things differently, like, how do we get people into creative flow state to begin with? And we looked at their office environments, we looked at the hours that they were working, and we had a


process for rapid prototyping, ideas that allowed us to test them in market within two hours, and then decide if they worked and if we needed to keep going. But that process was ultimately designed to make sure that we were measuring towards the objective. And that the biggest, the best creative always one which may not be the pretty glamorous campaign we were working off, have been effectiveness solution, and we were increasing our alive 400 to 500%


for her clients. So I have seen that happen. What I see the challenges is that in the typical agency environment process is usually focused on getting the work out the door to the client and less so on. How do we create creative flow state inside of our organization? So how do you fix it? I mean, how do you make that better? Because that see what you're describing is exactly in my estimation, but the core of the problem is that we fix the


process of getting the workout to the client, but we don't optimize the process of actually coming up with the great ideas. Yeah, well it really require strong leadership whose with that are really willing to break the mold like we had to. We had to allow people to work whenever they wanted to work because we knew that some people's flow state is in the morning and some people's is at night. We created a work from anywhere culture because one of our employees traveled the world full time, you know, and that's how he got his creative inspiration.


And then you combine it with a process that support and as flexible so that everybody can wrap a prototype, their ideas. But without strong leadership, it simply doesn't work. And then when implemented that inside of a team inside of a client. What we found is that team became the highest performing team inside the organization. But it wasn't they couldn't they couldn't take it outside of their team because it wasn't coming from leadership. It was coming from a team actually


executing. So my my answer is that, you know you really have to have strong leadership who's willing to do the things like Steve Jobs did, which were completely break the mold and look at a totally different way of working. Yeah, we years ago we did cut a move and shift our workflow processes of the agency, and because we were born out of Silicon Valley, we looked at like the agile workflow of technology companies, and we'd work lobby. So what if we apply that to an agency? And I will say we started talking


about rapid prototyping and agile strategy, and swarming immersive collaboration of skill sets. A lot of old people were arabists. They wanted to do things, issued a waterfall way. They wanted to take the time and make these beautiful presentations and sell ideas the clients. But we said, now we wanted to iterate and collaborate with customers would be more agile. And I think to do that it created. We just got to be more apathetic. They got to believe in the power of teamwork. You have to be a little bit more humility, and they have to have some


courage to try something different. Well, this is all great thoughts, but we're going to move on to the next topic McCann released an aging report that provide some fascinating insights into the changing perspectives on how we respond to differ messaging at different stages of our lives. Nicole take us through the big takeaways of this particular study. I think it's pretty fascinating. How does this affect or messaging too, not just old people but also younger consumers? Well, what I


think we're seeing is that the data is starting to support that we are in a really interesting time. You have the boomer generation that is aging out as they say, you have the genetics generation that aging in coming into like truly senior leadership position, sea level positions, and then you have the millennial generation coming in also taking out leadership roles. So the interesting thing and there's there's cycles that predict this stuff, but essentially right now what's happening is that old is the new chick. We


have young people who are dying their hair grey. That never would have happened in my dinner. He said, we have a vibrant elderly population that's healthy and full of wisdom because we've had better nutrition and better processes around fitness and all of these things. But right now, when you look at the advertising that's that's really targeted to the aging population, it makes the outlook look really grim for the young generation from impotence, incontinence, uncontrollable diarrhea, and whatever


else. The pharmaceutical industry is helping. It doesn't appeal. And so I think what the outcome of studies like this is that the attitude really needs to shift towards aging into from that model that traditionally has shamed women while glorifying men and having more advertising that's focusing on women and men who are getting better with age reveling in their changing bodies and appreciate their new found freedom. And that's going to inspire generations


across the board. So this idea that we're marketing to one generation. I just see that really evolving into. A collaboration between all generations. And when you're talking about aging in particular, I mean, like being told that it's going to suck when you're old your whole life isn't fun for anyone. So I think we can do a better job, you know? I'm so glad you set it up like this because when I started to wrestle with this particular topic and preparing for the show. One of the things that came to


my mind is that this is so frigging complicated anymore. It's not just about marketing to an elderly population with an elderly message, and it's not just about marketing to younger people with. A more vibrant message. I mean, you're absolutely right. What what we're saying to the older generation is not affecting the older generation nearly as much as its affecting the younger generation. I mean, I found it fascinating that millennial deserve way more concerned about aging than 70 year


olds. I mean, what is that about? I mean, part of it is also that there's just more information and education, right? So when you say that you're worried about aging, like the real question is what is it that you're worried about? What my experience with the millennial generation is that they're smarter about aging, they're taking care of their skin. They're taking care of their bodies. They're eating healthy. They're not getting caught into the monolith of advertising that's telling him to eat processed foods and all of those kind of things. Now, let's see liberals. You


know, because the millennial is I know we're not doing that. Yeah, perhaps I travel in some conscious circles where nutrition is a little different, but like what I see from the millennial generation is a level of awareness about health that includes that I am going to be preventive about aging versus trying to address that after the fact. Oh fair for points. I mean, Dave, what's your take on this? I mean, it's just like, how do we manage


messaging when we have a specific target that were going afterwards? They were going after her in the older generation, say 50 to 70 or something like that. And do we need to constantly be aware of what the impact of that messaging has got to be to a younger generation that. Could potentially be impacted negatively by the messaging. We're giving to the older generation in Rome or trying to market products that are more appropriate to their age as well.


And it's it's it's such a complicated thing. It's anymore. Yet is and I mean you can't you can't please everybody, I guess. But I think I think. Really with energy generation like I did some searches of intergenerational ads out of curiosity before the call. And I notice that like most of them feature like family portrait and father, son stuff for my mother, daughter stuff. And morally tradition base, nothing so sort of I came to the conclusion that it's like really well established brands with like rich histories


can can really do well within a generational. But it is definitely more complicated. Like I'm talking like big brands that are very familiar that like my son will be familiar with when when he's older and I'm much older and things like myself and my dad. So I think it really depends obviously on on the the products that you're you're marketing and advertising of course. But I think these older brands can take advantage of this type of advertising for sure. I think


creatively it's interesting because. Just as much as last segment, we talked about rock stars and greet created, which we see a lot of there's also a lot of bad advertising. We see. I mean, look at my T v. and other things, and I foresee. Those are sometimes the places that are running the ads targeted at the the more age age demographic. I was just thinking that maybe. The breakthrough with smart marketers and great brands as David mentioned, is that if somebody could kind of do the equivalent of like the real beauty campaign that came


out with great wearisome old, imagine if somebody could start to break that through marketing towards the demographic. Yeah. But when we're talking about that particular campaign, the it was a pretty straightforward approach. It was marketing to women, and it was saying that all body types and all body shapes and sizes are acceptable. And we're a product that values beauty in all its many forms, which is a really broad


brush stroke. But what's what's interesting about this dilemma when you're talking about aging is like I do. We try to get micro and we try to speak. More specifically to all the different aging concerns of all the different audiences, or do we praying big, broad brush strokes that can affect all the audiences at once. I mean, I'm not really sure which way to go. W- what would you say about that, Scott, I mean, how would you approach them? Well, I use the real beauty and


campaign more because it was a fantastic and because it showed I mean, you talk about millennial advertising, they want meaning and they walked purpose from the brands if they respected and connect to. And I was a saying that if you could bring the same spirit of authenticity to how you market products, because even the research that we saw from again, there's a lot of segments within this aging population. And some of them are. Be dynamic, but I don't think when you look at how the portrayed and how the marketed too, I think he's missing the point


that there are lots of stereotype in an old way. There's there's an opportunity just go forward. In a real one Ritchie positive way to that target for sure. Yeah. I went to say that other opportunity here is to like really start to understand generational dynamics, like the unfortunate. And that one of my close friends is a generational area. So I have these conversations often about the different generations, but there are dick double patterns of how what language is effective, what their value systems are, and it


repeats through history, and it's like a 40 year cycle. And so if you start to understand that, then you can start to craft language, for example, were coming into a 4th turning right now, which is a major generational shift. And every time we've come into a 4th turning it starts and 20 20 20 20 and then three to 20 24. This is a time where in the past there's there's this big unknown transformational event that's going to happen. And the last two were World War Two in a civil war you know said


the question is 20 20 to 20 24 what's going to happen and how's it going to impact these generations? So maybe you can explain a 4th turning a little bit more to us before is. Sure. So the 4th turning is essentially the end of a 40 year cycle in history. And I am totally not the expert on this. But I watched a few of the videos, and basically it's the last. Four years of this cycle, and what happens at the last four years of this cycle is that there's some catalyst for change. A huge catalyst for


change, and what it does is it essentially shakes out all the negativity and unifies the population again. And then the population makes transformation that begins in 20 24 and the not go through 20 44. So this has happened, we like in our lifetimes beyond these generations, this has happened twice already. And in that four year turn and forth tourney each time, there's been a war. And so the question right now is what is going to be our 4th turning? And when you do


things like divide people and put them into segments and show people that they're separate from each other. It creates this divide this division between people, but what we're seeing in marketing right now that I find fascinating is for the first time marketers are not looking so much is how to divide. But we're looking at how to unify, and I think this conversation around Aden, perfect example of that. So if I can maybe


paraphrase what you're saying, reflect back a little bit about what you're telling us. You're essentially advocating for more of a unified approach to the marketing messaging and less focusing on the specific needs of the generational concerns that each particular generation has. I mean, how how are we how are we handling the aging question going forward? Yeah, I think it's about understanding the difference in the aging populations, right? Like understanding the difference between gen xer


and boomers and millennial is critical. But if you understand that then you can see what's common between all of them. And how we can collect, create collaboration amongst the generations. It's incredibly important right now because millennial had these really grand ideas for how to change the world, but they need gen access to help them get it done. Because gen X'ers know how to get things done. And we look to our elders for wisdom, which is the boomer generation because they've been


through this before. And if we can unify that across and showed like the beauty of wisdom going from generation to generation and that we age gracefully together and our families get more supportive and you're seeing, you know, models pop out that are like 70 years old that are super celebrities. And their followers are millennial ze. So I just at that really telling that society is evolving and we have this opportunity to really to stop putting people into buckets. While


recognising what their commonalities are, but really focusing on unifying them across the board. Yeah, that's really that's great, great points. I mean, one of the the ads that I mentioned I was looking at was a NatWest it was called NatWest father and son, and you can find it on YouTube. But that ad showed like is a British add of course. And it showed like the father, the aging father in the in the sun, or obviously aging as well and how they both use the Bank and any kind of brings them together. But it takes it


from both different different perspectives so that any viewer of any age would probably appreciate the ad and it would resonate with them. So I like I like what you're saying about trying to. You know, trying to incorporate these ads for everyone so that because all of us have parents or grandparents, and children and so on, so we can all kind of understand and recognize that. You know what's interesting about the way this conversation has turned in has taken the in- interesting turn, but I did not


expect. Is when you compare what you're saying Nicole too? It has been said in the McCann study, the McCain study seems to imply that we need to be more conscious of the the effects of the aging process on every single different generation, and maybe these Taylor message to better affect all these different audiences. So it seems to be more of a segmented approach, but. The approach you're taking


seems a lot more effective overall, but it's it takes a more holistic view of the audience and says. Were we need to have a multi generational approach to aging? We need to not think about eating it from the perspective of how it impacts every single age demographic. But we take it in more of a holistic way that embraces the fact that we are in a process and a journey with all the different age groups. In the there's a part of the story that


impacts all of us. Yeah, I think man, oh, this is what happens in research studies, right? Like we segment the data and therefore we think the answer is to then segment that people who are affected by the data. You segmented the data so that you could show us analysis of what is important of these different age groups. But that doesn't mean that our response is dented. Then turn and segment our audience. The question really is, can you create that unified message? That also resonates at


each age group, that creative genius, tying it back into our other conversation. That is something that that creates movement and people that creates inspiration and people that makes me feel like I belong. Like I'm supported that I have tried. And the thing that we need them most right now is feeling that we have tried, we've become so separated with our devices in the way we're using social media that people actually feel more isolated. So I just see this is a huge


opportunity to really evolved the industry completely. We need to understand people's buckets. And then and then look at how we get people into the same pool ultimately, and how we can talk and a unified voice, especially because with GDP are and the data regulations. And you know, I'm a data geek as this stuff is coming down. I mean the big thing for the marketers that we really need to understand that the veil is falling and we're not going to be able to track this much data going forward. Consumers are going to be outraged when they


understand how much data we have on them. So this segmentation we can even do now. I see going away in the next five to 10 years. Go Scott Nichol thanks for bringing up the word tribe liquid. We're. Big believers in the idea of tribes and been talked about for years. I think the key is exactly what we're touching on his. That tribes are really are the commonalities, why people love a brand, would that be the employees or customers or the future customers? And I think we're taught so much to


think about segments to build a brand long term and start to build a bigger try that influences others and it today. Brands are being built. More by tribes were thrilled on the artists who marketing messages in a traditional sense. So that that's the key we believe to build a brand, but the end the day as you downstream, you get into your day in your media and you get your mediums that's me. You have to get you look at your segmentation messages. But I think I think people are getting confused, but we're we're definitely all it on the whole idea of this commonality of tribe.


While you're brought up G d. P r. Nicole and I want to move on and talk a little bit about this mystery that's happening. It's always been a certain amount of mystique about why programatic deals aren't getting done. There's often people talking about, we need to open the Komodo and show each other, what's going on behind the scenes or else were never going to get this figured up. But now with GDP are in place along with the resulting confusion over its implementation requirements, publishers noticing that much of their


added mentoring isn't even being listed by many of the demand side platforms, even when the audience is provided permission to receive messaging. So Dave, is this the result of GDP or confusion alone? Or is this a signal of more fundamental problems with the programatic space, which would you say? Yes, so. When I was reading about was 80% of companies are still not de de beer compliant right now. So that's a problem. And you know, unto itself. But


these are not reading consent signals in a standardized way. And I think that's a big problem. From what I understand with it. These methodology is not accepted by all D s. p.s and then also googles is different as well. So I think there. I think they're lacks a sort of standardized way to do this effectively. So it's right now is when a when I was looking at this story, you know, that's that's the


take away initially had. It's like there needs to be standardization, brought to the process, and we need to have some kind of agreed approach to how we justify whether or not somebody should receive an out or not. But then as I started to like, look back through my notes from previous programs in look back at conferences of attended in, look back at all the conversations I've had with programatic individuals. This this doesn't sound any different. It just sounds like a magnified


problem that has been existing in the industry since the beginning of the programatic revolution. It seems like forever in a day we've had this issue were ad deals are not getting done because someone somewhere is not approving the inventories, someone there's there's like no standardization of involved anywhere in G d. P r.'s just exacerbated a fundamental problem with the industry. Am I wrong in that? Yeah, I mean, I think I think you're under


something there, but I think I think you really does come. Two down to standardize Asian and so that everybody is on the same page with how this exactly works. Because I mean, obviously there's still a lot of confusion. One article I read said GDP are pure implementation is under way or or completed has increased 38% to 66% in U s. and then 37 to 70 83% of the U k. so it seems that people are starting to implement it and


understanding are starting to understand at least. But I still think the system's kinda broke in as far as people will completely understanding. You know how it, how it is supposed to work. Nicole, you know I'm coming to you with us [laughter] being the data geek of the group here. So what's your take on this? I mean, is there a fundamental flaw in the programatic system that's keeping deals from getting done and G d. P r.'s just exposing that flaw, or is there a way to simply fix this problem by


a quick standardization of the G d. P r. principles? And is it even possible to standardize G d. P r. considering the fact that nobody understands what's actually going to get them sued by the European Union? I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that's the big point here is like what? What level of importance to you? Give G d. P r. and I would say that you should put it at the top of the priority list because quite frankly, it's the right thing to do with the with the European Union did with the with it. Rates of people in


our privacy is important and it's an important move. And the other thing is that people are really confused about this. I did a pod cast with Chris Penn, and he pointed out that GDP are applies. If someone is traveling in Europe and they come here site, you require to be compliant. And so it's not just citizens. You don't have to have citizenship to be protected. And so I think we have no choice. But to start complying with G d. P r. but I think what we found it, that software


providers. Are woefully under prepared for this and they really have not built in the technology that's required to do this effectively. Okay. Before you get into that, because I think that's a really important opinion. I want to back up for a second and talk about the fact that even if you want to be compliant, even if you do put this to the top of your priority list, you really don't understand what you need to do in order to be compliant. The opinions that are


out there are so divergent about how to handle even something as simple as an opt in doing in doing the people to opt into our Email database. So do we just update or terms of service? I mean, in the European Union is not giving any help in terms of clarification. So how do we get to this place? And the. So I was I was just going to say really quickly you'll be able to speak better to this, but I did notice there was a great Forbes article July 6th that


was a 9 point checklist for successful compliance, which I reviewed in they dig. They broke down pretty clearly what what you need to do, but gladden sir. Yeah, I mean, I was a suggestion that like there are some really good companies out there that would likely want to sell you something. They want to sell your solution, but what they're giving away our these checkless. And so go get one of these checklist and then audit yourself and always always consult a legal opinion on this because this is a legal


issue you now this isn't my creative is not good enough to perform. This is like there's lawsuits on the back end of this. So I would hire an attorney and also like I do think that the truth of the matter is you have to ask who is the best to solve this? And I don't think that client side or agency side is the best to create solutions to solve this. I think this needs to be integrated into the software that reusing because it is it's complex. Can I ask a question about


the before we move on? I just want to ask a simple question about the checklist because if we know the people have divergent opinions about what about how to handle this situation, should we depend upon a single checklist? Or should we always be seeking multiple checklists and see where the academy is? And then consult legal opinion based on those dichotomies that are not marrying up with each other? I think doing here. Oh, sorry. Stock on it. Yeah, there's a


jeopardy because you know we have been looking at the same. We've actually started with our legal side and specialty within our law practice. That's look at this for quite a while. I mean, there are there's the U s. checklists there's the European Union checklist, and there's also as a as an agency for higher. There's what's the quiets position. If you're dealing with a global brat and you're building tools and doing marketing, you're under their I miss Asia, entered their their profile. So we kind of what that is. And what we found is that because the internet is a global global


Feng, we're almost looking at the U s. plus the plus the version for compliance here because we it almost seems like the U s. water is too limiting. So that's one thing we're trying to focus on. Whether it's first self as a marketer or customers, we know that we manage those pieces. But if you have a bigger quiet, a global enterprise, you another essays, you also have to go back and say, well, look, what your policy. Aid workers were just an were following your policies because you're really, you know,


get where were for higher. And a call you mentioned Chris pan criticism, great person to for for your lesters Bob opted to follow it could because he's writing about this stuff a lot. So and he's definitely brilliant. Let's say for sure, Chris would be my exper- at brain trust because he he really has done the research on this and more so than anyone else I know. And he also understands the data side.


This is one that requires technical expertise to implement, in my opinion. Agreed, and for the sake of Christopher, I will say that he loves to be called Christopher [laughter]. Well, being a Silicon Valley based company. This reminds me a little of the March the y2k when you know planes we're going to unfortunately, maybe fall out of the sky on on the on the first day of the new millennium, and technology was a big part of it and people built practices. I think the


difference we're facing now is theirs. It's not that potential concerns and also a y2k ended up, but it's more the fines and being responsible to your consumers and cut us to Mars. But I think this is going to be a big wave of work. It's going to drive a lot of work for a lot of companies, and certain people actually will benefit a lot from just active. Even tried to be compliant responsible. I would also say that like it's it's not just about G d. P r. right now, I mean, the reality is that with the what


we've had with Facebook and Cambridge analytic, we've had data leaks, data breaches, all of these different things happening across many industries happening with marketing data. The reality is that we need to prepare for consumers to know how much data were give. It were tracking and for them to be able to remove it. Because if we're not hearing in that direction to do what's in the best interests of the customer, we're going to end up getting caught with our pants down again and and we're trying to build trust with our audience is not be these like marketers behind the scenes that are


collecting all this data. And I have no idea, quite frankly. So I think it's about G d. P r. but the bigger thing I see here is that we as marketers me to need to be far more respectful about what we do with consumer day. Okay. List point on this, because I want to bring it back to where we started, which is about the say this a market or a publisher has very clean data has all the permissions in line is doing everything correctly. Yet, it doesn't have


demand side public demands by platforms actually listing their inventory. How do we how do we get to the place where everybody's on the same page because that's a simple organizational problem that's not a matter of whether or not you're comply with G d. P r. that comes down to you. Have different entities, interpreting GDP R differently. And thus deals are not getting done even though the permissions are in place. So how do you manage that? I mean, is there any


way to get around it or is it just. You know, working with all your demands, I platforms make sure that everybody's working off the same page. I only I've found is that as as it appears that more and more people are taking this seriously in certain implement the changes that I need to make according to the studies and I've I've read about it, it seems obviously the the the advertisers will also hop on and the platforms will help on so that people can actually start.


So the ads could start going through, I guess. Yeah, I mean, I think from a software perspective, they don't want to lose these deals, so it's inherit interests to to make this available and start implementing it in a way that serves their customer base. So it's a bump in the road right now? Yeah. I think it's just a great like a growth that you know one of those like earth problems like, I don't know what they had so much time to get up to speed, but for whatever reason, this is the kind of work like we continually put off instead of a dressy will last. But


not least. I want to talk a little bit about a television because there was this interesting article that kind of outlined what exactly as happened with television over the past five years. And it's easy to forget just how far we've come. I mean, Nicole, when we look at the way television advertising is being done. Now, when we look at the way that we're consuming television, when we look at the fact that most of the network's out there have over the top solutions now and that streaming


services have become the norm. It's changed so radically in five years. My question is, do we respond to the changes that have happened already, or we better suited for better served by looking forward and saying where we going, as opposed to where we are now? I think you have to start looking at where we're headed because I mean, just look at. I mean the whole idea that if you remember net flicks when they


went from DVDs to streaming how big of a deal it was, and how much market share they lost in the stock price plummeted and then next thing you know, oh, oh, look, this is actually working. This wasn't really smart move. And so I think as you're looking at where to go with T v. I think it's it's online. I think it's looking in new channels. I mean, to be honest, you can talk about the net flicks is in the who lose in all of those. But I think there's far more streamed through YouTube right now than any of those


channels. And YouTube is free. And as offering paid options and is offering subscription options now sell really it's the good news is that the T v. is moving into channels that you most marketers are already familiar with? And the ad platforms are easy, a little bit easier to use, and you're getting better data on the back end. But this idea of traditional T v. viewing, and even that will sit and watch commercials. Like it's it's really interesting. Some of these. T. V


shows where they forced you to watch the commercials now and don't give you the skip option. And how like. The attitude that you have towards that brand is like your annoyed that they wouldn't let you skip their ad. It's like, you know, this interruption style of marketing is annoying. And the more we are, the less the less brand loyalty we're going to get. So I think it's a big shift is to look at really how can you use these platforms in a way that.


I actually I'm going to be grateful for you in our interrupting my programming. I remember watching 24 on Hulu some years ago, and every forced ad was the same Ford commercial. Yes, I remember that too. My hair to my head, like the worst part about the early streaming experiences was when they would serve an ad and that it would crash the up. And then you had to go back to the beginning of the program, and you couldn't forward to the place fast forward to the place where you were because you had


that all these ads that you ought to look through. So I mean, at least we've gotten past that even the we're still getting the same out over and over again throughout the experience. But for Scott, we've got to the point where my kids like to cut the cable like eleven years ago and my kids at about three years ago, my kids ask me and what a commercial was. I kid you not at so awesome. I want to get your your thoughts on this this


situation before delve into my thoughts about where the industry's moving, but where do you see the industry going and where do we need to be moving in terms of our approach to advertising in order to better capture and better entertain better former consumers? Well, I think I mean, we just go look at how the power of the consumer they want to get information when they want it, how they want it, and how they want to connect. And I think


when you're looking at brands and how to connect with audiences, you just have to be flexible. I mean, we had a meeting just. About two weeks ago about launching a whole series. And a lot of us. In in the business for hours, he got watching this content series and doing a drip, arriving teasing it out. And then all the millennium said, there's six fell. Just put em up one time, let her be watching like they do on next like so it's nearly a daily part of our life. And I think I think the whole day. Other than maybe


real time news or it's just a few things that are just live events sometimes want to see at the moment, but a lot of other content people wanna just consume it when they want. It's that's not going to change. And I think the networks that are figuring out how to connect and adapt are the ones that will survive. And there's a lot of threats from these new models. You know? It's interesting you bring up when you want because I'm actually more of the opinion that consumer opinion is shifting back to where you one. That that's the more


important thing to deliver. And I've said this several times over the last few weeks on the program, and I still maintain that the worthy audience is moving is away from over the top that we've gotten into this bind where we have the choice of 80 different channels that are all charging is $14 or $15, or $60 a month. And suddenly the the average amount, more spending on T v. is way more money than we were spending on cable. And we're


realizing what we really wanted all along was just to be able to take our cable wherever we are on our devices on our phones on our computers. I want to be able to watch the local news from New York when I'm in LA or San Francisco. What are you guys think too, that that model is that more important to? Is that more important to consumers to have a cable line up? The gives me all the programs that I won, but gives me the portability to take it


everywhere. I want to be. And maybe offers a D v. are portions of it. I can get it when I won, but mainly it's about selection and portability. I think I mean afflicts is one of the reasons you see such traction until the recent earnings call were they maybe didn't meet the exact numbers of growth have been going on for so long. But if I can you check into a hotel room and now you're seeing the net flicks button on your T v. and you said you can sit there and law again.


You get on an airplane. Everybody's got, I pads and falls. I mean, it's just this is the way people are consuming content. So I think the more flexible you can be in the more options you can give, they're better off. You're going to be if you can have all the restrictions that people are in a heat buffet up against the wall, they're going to use probably an alternative that gives in Los flexibility. I just think that's today's era, is a three screen Aron. And if you kept the T v. it's a forthright from the tablet to mobile to computer, and we're seeing everybody use all of


them to consume what they want. I'm also saying like people go and mean that fire stick is really popular. Now it is portable, it has everything you need. So I agree that you know, being on all screens is really important, but I'm also like noticing that more and more people are just not watching T v. the way that they used to, you know, they're not watching this programming isn't much there watching different types of programs seeing more and more people watching


documentary style stop watching self improvement, personal development kind of stuff and really wanting that inspiration over wanting entertainment. And I think quite frankly, that's that's a good move for us. That's that's pushing us towards expansion versus just like being entertained. And not that entertainment is is not important. I think it is, but I think we're choosing our entertainment. Giving ourselves like a really small chunk of time for because we're doing so much other stuff. And using that time very intentionally. Yeah, well


audiences might be smaller furs Pacific for individuals. Programming or shows advertisers can be really savvy because they can head and reach a very specific core target market who are watching that show. Now, of course, like guy is a good example in all some really well produce. Some really poorly produced content, but it's all focussed around kinda like the evolution of humanity and consciousness. And so they they target and this is an interesting


thing because I think as we start to look at where the industry is heading, I think looking at connecting to tribes, who want specific experiences is really where we're headed versus these segmentation approaches we've used in the past. Well, with that it's time for the Advil five but before we get to that segment of the show, I do want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guests again and allow them they each do a shameless plug starting with Dave Delaney you can find him at future


Bunch of different ways you can spell that, right [laughter]? I've actually done something kinda fun. I've started working more with businesses on helping them with their communication. And I've developed a workshop that is tons of fun, and I will just. I won't ramble on about it. If you could check out communication, you can find out more about that workshop, but it's it's a lot of fun and it's something that I'm very excited about. And the feedback has been


astounding four so far. So fingers crossed he wanted to and that. That's wonderful. Wonderful things will check that out. Next up, we have Scott Gardiner you can find him@liquid agency dotcom. That's the home of his agency. That is providing all kinds of amazing services which you heard about him. Talk just a little bit during the program, but Scott, what would you like to promote about your shop or about anything at all? Yeah, thank you. I would like to promote the fact that we were eighteen year old agency, and we just went through a pretty big rebrand. It started about a


year ago and it's it's around the law, the topics that are coming up today and we just went from what we call. A brand experience agency, which we evolved out of a traditional Brandon agency and recently have relied as brand culture agency, and we use the term brand culture makers. I think. The reason for that is that about eight years ago, we started doing more internal employee experience work, and we will try to tied around bran but also connect to the customer experience. So


our big move for the future, and we're seeing a lot of work at a lot of success is that we believe brands need apps, bowed strategy, and connect the employee experience to the customer experience to the service experience. And that's the area that we're putting a ton of our focus and our future position, and it village. It is, is that some people think of rent culture means it's just the employee peace. And so we're having to redefine what brand culture beans in the market. Although we're seeing some brand marketers talk about it, the way that we are so


excited about that. And it sounds like a really, really exciting moves. Fantastic for you guys and hope it goes well. And last, but not least Nicole Coley you can find her a conscious marketing That's where she is the conscious marketing chief consciousness officer delivered at the right. It's a lotta them. There's a lot of season, but tell us what's going on in your world, what would you like to promote? Yeah, thank you so much. So we have to setting announcements. The first is


that we have the conscious marketing pod cast. So if you're listening to this pod cast and you kind of like what. We're talking about then the conscious marketing pie cast, certainly an option. We basically talk about where the industry is headed and what this evolution of humanity is actually doing in providing opportunities for marketers. And the other thing that's interesting that I didn't expect after I sold social media explorer and asked me digital is that we've actually decided that we're going to open a division doing content marketing on because as we look at conscious marketing


and where we can have the most impact, we're finding that many companies are really looking for teams to really support them with inspirational and empowering messages that are designed to help humanity as a whole. So. So that's what's going on and you can find more conscious marketing. It's too calm. Sounds amazing. Awesome stuff. As for me for more information about me or the show visit, the being cast dotcom there, you can find a complete show archive. You can find out how to consult with me. And of course, you can even find out how to advertise on


the program. So check it out@the being cast.and don't forget. Transcribe cast as your source for all transcription services, and they are the official transcription partner of the being cast. So if you like this episode in need the research a little bit about what was said, you can always check out our site@the being cast a come within a week, and you will have a transcription of this episode available for you. So definitely support our sponsor transcribed, me.slush being discussed. And now


it's time for the ad fell five or run down of the lowest moments in advertising marketing and public relations from the last week. First up land bible was supposed to be losing the bureau of, you know what I'm talking about, Scott, the build its reputation on this whole bro thing. So imagine the surprise of everyone when they're Arabian theme summer. Oh, the similar bread Arabian theme, summer party, I really should have thought twice about this. But apparently


the organizers of the party were not really certain what exactly was going to be provided by the vendor who provided a stripper. So Scott, what's going on here [laughter]? They said it was actually a topless burlesque dancer. Doesn't that make it better? Language? I think I think the challenge for brands are, you know, if you know, I mean, everybody's under fire for more responsibility and


more just just being better citizens. And I think when you're not we're seeing it right away because of the impact of social and people recording things and live everywhere. And hide, I think if you're gonna be a bro- branded, you know, you got a you got it. You can't hide your bro. If the child all I mean there there, they are who they are and they they they're caught. Tennis or content, neither either go of whether you agree with or not, but at least they embrace. I think


for a copy this big and start trying to make the change, they're going to have hiccups because they built the brand in one manner with what attitude and as their shifting. And it takes a look all to get everybody aligned. Actually, truly shifts on the stakes will have absolutely. No next up when discussing how they were cleaning of Facebook there in the coal Mark Zuckerberg told an interviewer that they still need to balance free speech and use the example of how they still allowed holocaust on the site.


You know, Nicole, I understand what he was trying to get at is trying to say, well, I don't agree with holocaust deniers but we've got to allow some room for free speech while we're getting rid of fake news. But that seemed like the worst example he could have possibly used and I can picture every single person in behind the scenes just shaking their head what he said. Yeah, for sure. I mean, well, first of all you talk about holocaust deniers and then you talk about that. You're essentially


going to be this like dictator deciding what isn't isn't appropriate on your side is just like across the board. And I think it's really time for marks. Roberto recognize he is in way over his head right now. It's really needs them. Support. To ensure civil rights aren't violated like legitimately, but also that like he's just not saying things that are really unconscious because there's flat earth or is to protect [laughter]. Absolutely


[laughter]. Well, British Airways started blocking I love the stories, the British or versus started blocking customers from checking in for flights. They've if they were using add blockers in response to Twitter complaints about the fuck the passengers could not check into the flights because of this. They were asking the flyers to publicly tweet their personal information in order to resolve. This makes me always wonder like who is running your Twitter


account [laughter]? Because obviously that was just such a bad idea and also blocking like add blockers, then you're blocking browsers, aren't you? At this point? It's just so crazy, you know, to say to a passenger, even though we allowed you to make a reservation, we're not going to actually let you check in because you're using it a black or I mean what a terrible, terrible customer experience? Yes. Absolutely. They might be affected by that giant screaming baby


[laughter]. It's just weird as the airline industry its most regularly with the most rules make the most mistakes when it comes to customer experience. It just goes from one to the next stop saying it really, really does. Next up the Papa John's fiasco keeps growing Scott. The former chairman now claims that former agency laundry service tried to extort six million dollars to make the story go away agency, vigorously denies it. I don't know who to believe


anymore. I mean, this is like such a disastrous situation both for Papa Johns and for everybody who was involved with a. Yeah, it. This reminds me of things going on with our president in Cohen and everybody else, it's all. And it happens in a pizza chain, right? This is. They sell pizza. Yeah. But it just shows. I mean, it's amazing avenues hit on the issue, and it kept growing every day. And you know, this is a kind of quiet that actually is in crisis and one that this is the tech


work we'd like to you because you have to completely reinvent the culture and leadership. And I've talked about two. They change their Papa jacks. Did they take taken in him off the boxes? He's going to the building. But when you have somebody that so far out there representing that brand one mishap by that individual and the brand to be in crisis. And here were seen it in a big, big time. And there's a lot of different places you can buy pizza. Meanwhile, you also have dominoes filling potholes in cities and putting their stamp on it. Probably the better advertising


strategy ever. That was clever. I anything that involves any pizza chain just makes me really crave pizza [laughter] as soon as I hear any of these brands, like, damn, I'm hungry. So what you're saying is basically Nazi pizzas still makes you hungry for pizza [laughter] bird will allow them to speak about it on Facebook. It was a rough week last week and a half of the oversea o- going down Texas Instruments. Papa John More the news than secretary.


So it is a tough time to be in the spotlight with everything and how people are looking at the leadership and how these brands behaving in one less fill the week. If anyone should be able to keep their servers up during an online cell promotion, it should probably be Amazon. Nicole. Instead prime day started off with a whole lot of very, very sad dog images are couldn't believe this because I actually checked it out within the first few minutes. I managed to get


logged in for maybe about two minutes and then after that dogs for the next five hours, it was incredible. It was like it was like kittens with screwdrivers on Twitter in the early days. Yeah, I mean, it just goes to show you that even the best can sometimes like miss plan for an event and have more people than they expected to show up. You know, I like I'm somebody who goes to the burning man and they have 70000 people try to come on line and get tickets, and they figure this out. So


I think they might use the Amazon shockingly enough said, this might be an issue thing. Amazon runs the internet. Amazon web services runs the frigging internet. You'd think they'd have outsourced. They're hosting [laughter]. I really thought this was a done at first like when it when it first went down, but but by the got longer it was obvious. It was when it first went down. I thought this could be a P r. stuck. We'll have the guy fat after 28 years of


being embroiled in Silicon Valley is the one thing about technology companies. Specially brands that are trusted, they they do get the opportunities to fail, and it doesn't. It's not always catastrophic it. It happens. I think people how often as my net flicks crash too, but you just become more tolerant that it is technology and doesn't always work. So I'm sure Amazon will recover, fight all their competitors. I'm sure licking their chops. Absolutely. We'll have something to add to this list of just wanted to discuss it. Comment on


lying use the hash tag, add fell five that's pound Advil. And the number five. We'll that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this pod cast visitor website@the being and click on the subscribe link. If you're a Nigerians listener, we've also provided a direct link to the genes music store or just search for the being cast in the pontiff's directory, vitamins, and whichever pod ghost directory you use when you subscribe, please leave, observe. You got a comment, have a question we'd love to


hear from you. Just send your emails to been cast. A M l. dotcom opening theme was performed by Joseph Cambell closing theme by sea jacks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob, nor will be back again next week. Hope you'll join us then.


Slight. Exactly.


Cool beans.