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For Monday, November fifth 2018 it's time for this week's edition of the beam. Cast a weekly discussion about the news and issues faced marketers today. I'm your host Bob, thanks for joining
data silence of vilified throughout the business world. But are they truly the problem that reimagined now that most companies embraced data activation platforms our data bottlenecks in IT approval? Processes the real trouble tonight. We'll discuss also why creative sharing should happen. Earlier. The reason social may not be reaching millennials eliminating the Twitter like button
plus this week's at fell 5 that's the lineup. Let's meet tonight span. Thanks for joining us for this week's been cast. I'm Bob north. And with me on the panel for this evening. We start with creative director, creative marketing director and branded content producer for aluminum. I productions as well as the host of the generation Jones podcast. Ms Wendy Cooper, Wendy. Hi, how are
you get that? Thanks for having me. My pleasure now. Also with us. We have the senior vice president innovation a great group. Ms. Alexa, depot squall, Alexa. Hi. How are you? Thanks so much for having me as well. Glad that you can get on the program this week. And then finally we have the director digital transformation at Campbell's, Mr. Samuel money. How are you man? I'm doing great, thanks for having me back. Both love having you on the program. Well, I had a
jumper and into the topics. The first one's a nice and juicy 1. I think you're going to appreciate it Sam we've all heard it said that silos are the bane of a corporation and data silos are particularly called to the map because they represent the missed opportunities that result from not speaking to customers or prospects with all the information available in hand. But what if silos aren't the issue? There's this fascinating article over an ad exchange changer that
suggests data bottlenecks and IT process are probably the problem more than anything, so Sam complicated. Read for sure I mean, I spent a long time kind of digesting what this author had to say. But what are your top line takeaways from this article? Looking at it. It was I like the way you framed some of the challenges, and he she sticks up the technology and the discipline overall as should
as he should. And so I am I actually I I do want 'em people actually reading in digging into it because he said, let delivery systems on evil. You know, the the the platforms. It's doing what they're supposed to do in that kind of makes things fragmented teams on evil, which is good to hear. So it's the idea that fights wedded to hangs on the team, you're on, you know, definitely evil [laughter]. Kind of argues the case that hey, we're just doing what with space to do. And it's been toss.
We fixing whole how though company works and then bottlenecks being caused by requests and resource constraints. So I I kind of walk away thinking aligned with some of the the sentiment which. Talks about fragmented data range originates from the way, which oversaw awestruck shit Amata kissing implemented. So it's about changing responsibilities goals and attitudes. And. I think he's correct. You can't blame the data. There's a few things going on in a pursuit, and whether it's performance marking or
evidence based marketing or or how you describe it. But I it's out immediately. A lot of the challenges is the reality of humans in a change and change management. So I I kind of. Walked away from this thinking, it's not about whether it's the data in silos or how you share data. It's ultimately just the fundamentals of. You have a lot of folks vested in the status quo, and it's not necessary. There. That mission to change. You know, they they not. They they're not interested in shifting from where they are.
And you know, this especially when it comes to a lot of the technology. There's a lot of complexity in a lot of jargon requires you to be really serious and dig into it. And I just think a lot of the fundamentals of the challenge of just change management. Sorry. Behavior change, measuring change organizational readiness and resources as this let the fundamentals changing before I read the article, I was right there with you on that. But you know, change management is the real course that the real problem
when you really need to create a culture that embraces data platforms and embraces a data Centric worldview. However, I mean, what this guy was really getting out was it. It's not a matter of adoption. There's some of these companies have 20 platforms. They're over adoption. There's so many different data requests in data opportunities within the organization that it creates bottlenecks, and that the IT processes the real problem that you're not making data more available.
Alexa, how much do you find that to be the problem when you're dealing with clients? I mean, it's like data set up within an organization being more the problem than actual whether or not the data's being used. Yeah. Absolutely. And and I'm speaking from on my my previous time actually at at a native ad company. I'm and I remember a big problem that we are consistently have any with having with clients is that oftentimes data doesn't
speak. To 1 another right? So you have certain processes am sort of back ends that are set up with a level of data that then you cannot ingest that data from the front end appropriately. And so even if you're trying very diligently to actually back up things with data oftentimes this systems do not work together. And it's become a really big problem were seen not actually a lot now internally at gray in terms of
clients wanting to see how how television is performing, and it's really hard to have the data back ends of T V data analytics be speaking toward the digital a front ends that we have in place. And so there's a lot of a disconnect between what you can actually understand. And it's a big thing that a lot of companies are. Trying to solve. But it's actually quite a difficult thing to solve in order to really prove that out.
You know, that's that's an interesting a lot of companies wanna try to use the data more efficiently. But then try to get more out of their data yet the data's and speaking to each other. But from a standpoint of operationally trying to get things off the ground is our anybody seeing is anybody here on this. Call seeing problems with clients like in the real world.
Or seeing problems within your own organization where a sensually the data is there. The platforms are doing what they're supposed to be doing your supposedly be able to get the insights and the actions out of these platforms yet, you're experiencing a bottleneck of you have to get approval through I t to make this actually happen, which is the basic premise of what the article saying. And it's just like, I I'm not sure I've seen
that to be a widespread problem within a lot of organizations on my wrong about that, Wendy, you seem to have an opinion you [laughter], so and 20 something years indirect response and. Data has always been you know, Alexi mentioned from television. So back back in the day in still today. You look at a television ad in and you used to quantify the results of a television ad by just looking at what was coming
into the trip through telemarketing right through the 800 numbers. And so we would look at that. We would cross check that with media. And we will look at the data coming in from all the different silos. Right. They're coming in from telemarketing or they're coming in. Now, it's coming in digital is coming in from Facebook. It's coming in from Amazon it's coming in from your television ad. It's coming in from your ads on on the Instagram. It's coming in from so many more different places which actually creates. Multiple multiple multiple silos. So,
but it all actually is ending up in in my world, or or how I read this article was it's all for me. It's all excellent ending up in 1 place. It's ending up. Probably logistically at the fulfillment center, which is shipping. The product. So the idea that if you want to take all of this data and have talked to each other. You know, I don't mind tire company on the fact that you know, I can't campaign manage direct response campaigns on I had to take the data coming from
all of the different places, which only grew over time analyze it and drill it down. Bring it into basically 1 silo that because the client than wanted you to spit out and say, okay, what is performing because at the end of the day. I think the article was really talking about. You know, we have all of these different places that the data is coming from. So how can we just bring it into 1 place and have it analyzed? So that we go, oh we want. Boardroom all the data
row. I see that as being an issue, but a marketing as a whole, or at least marketing analytics and using these data management platforms in putting data into action in place that you're supposed to be a little bit more nimble, but you're able to react faster to data cues that are coming in. And yet these data cues, according to the article or being bottlenecked at the IT level and the because the processes in place to make sure
that the data's kept safe. And that everything is run through a certain set of approvals that data is not accessible when it needs to be successful. And that the platforms are doing their jobs that they have this information, but were not able to act on this information. Well, that's exactly what I'm talking about. So I think until you have 1 specification for all of the data coming in. You know, where everybody's here's a here's a perfect example. If you want to sell a product, direct and
you go onto a shopping network. Let's use it. If for instance, Yvonne, or an or whomever. Today not years ago. But today now you have to go through a commerce hub. So this is a place that all of the the orders and things like that go through commerce hub, they stopped the commerce hub and commerce have been sends them onto your fulfillment center, which then handles all of your CRM, and your your shipping, logistics. And then they they send all of that information back to commerce hub commerce Hoffman charges.
A you know a lot to then send it back to eve online. Now jet has this WalMart has this target has this. And so, but each 1 has different specifications for that data to be brought into let's say 1 place commerce hub, and then funneled down to the client or to the customer, and well to the client, and then we have to look at that data, and we have to analyze it. Well, you know, where did it? You're using it for
CRM, you're using it for marketing, you're using for your your projections. Your your inventory projections using a for a lot of different reasons. So does that mean that the specifications for media buying for instance, are gonna be the same thing as specifications for your inventory? You know projections. So that's I think where the problem really comes from is that. All these different departments. All these different. IT departments are using it. For sorry. You guys I'm a
little under the weather today. But are using it forced to spare specific reasons until there's 1 big unbrella that basically says here's the specifications. Use these specs bring it all in which is what really Amazon does on. And then you can pull the data that you need depending on your department. It's not it's not going to happen. And it's only actually going to grow more silos because you only have more places that information is coming from whether it be marketing,
finance, or whatever it might be media. Some we were we're talking about. So everybody's bring up the silos or silos really a problem anymore. I mean, you know, Wendy points out the recruiting more and more silos and the the current set up the everybody has more data, but it seems to me from the course of this article and from the course of this conversation that. It's more about data sharing that there's a sharing
problem going on is that your understanding or you have a different opinion. You know, I'm I'm untold. Because as I as I listen to those who have 1 on the on the on this in this conversation. I'm just trying to sort of channel reality. I see. And I I think there is an especially if you're just wearing a marketing hat, I think it's it's to do with the shift in how you know, how marketing has evolved from say 10 15 years ago and now into today, and so you I assume a good
quite from the Clorox EMI, and he was basically talking about this the transformation this shift that they've had in our organization where they've. Forced everyone to basically sit together and work together. And it's gonna be uncomfortable. If you're an SME, but just to have a collective view because they had to change the way they were working, and you can't you can't manage. For technical silos, and then sort of functional silos in how you words, you're going to come together. And then determine what you're trying to achieve an award to that aim.
So they're the Simon's exist. But I think from certain CMO's and senior leaders their mission is to drive demar aunt, and he cage with their audiences and that they're gonna have to make this stuff work for them. And so I I still I yes, there may be technical data sort of them cleanliness or and synthesised too technical stuff. But I just think it's just a fundamental we try and achieve and how do we all get on the same page as an organization beer marketing,
research, insights, product them already and all kind of come together to to to have a common view and comment on the standing that. For me is is. I know that might lead as a shifting in that directions at NFL answer your question law. But I I'm coming up from the human side on the organizational design side. And I I they are looking to break the silos and and join things up because they're they're losing to the big big brands, especially losing to smaller brands who more nimble more agile, and he didn't get to the point. And and leverage it a
lot faster. So the logic companies are are changing. And then we'll see every time. It has a say those are good. I think from his AMA conference presentation last week association, national advertisers, corrupt CMO the presentations, and yet we'd be shifted. Let's is too soon to tell how was working, but we had to change. How are you doing things because? We're losing to the smaller brands of econo- full to to continue to do that. And it hasn't always been somewhat of a problem that enough we simplify and we just say the different departments in an
organization. Don't don't sit down in and speak to each other. Right. It is. So I I don't think I don't really see the difference unless there can be some type of platform that this data can be fed into. And you know, the the the software written to well marketing department wants to see this coming out of it and IT department wants to see this coming out of it and finance wants to see this coming out of that. But it it. It's 1 place that the that the data gets fed into.
You know, is it a single it's never a single place though. And that's the that's the issue or maybe it's not maybe it's not the issue is is what I'm getting a maybe it's okay for there to be lots of data silos as long as these different platforms in these different databases are actually talking to each other in a meaningful way, and enabling activity enabling action on that data as quickly as possible without any kind of bottleneck.
And I think that's a reasonable expectation because when Alexi, you know, better than anybody. I mean, I know a lot about your background know, you know, within an organization they can have as many as 20 30 40 different platforms sometimes running. It creating data play creating data silos left and right. That's just the reality. There isn't going to be a dashboard to rule them. All so how do we fix this? How do we make it? So that the data is talking to
each other more effectively throughout the organization, not that you have the magic wand or answer. But. I am. I am I right or am. I missing something. Now, you're completely cracked aiding. The biggest thing is. So what we did, particularly when I when I worked at startups on you really have to say attached to what your vision is and understand where is your audience. Where is the most meaningful data coming from? And how do you sort of poor everything in to that 1 2
3 whatever it is platforms. Right. You can't you can't be sort of a master of all it's really understanding what is working give giving the the testing and sort of AB testing of optimization between all the different platforms, and then recognizing okay? This is working for us. Wise is working for us. And let's keep pouring into.platform. The biggest problem to from a data perspective is we have to recognize and remember, frankly and be humble about the fact that
these platforms will continue to evolve. So even the way that Instagram or Facebook or any of your other sort of moat, analytics, etc. Are the way they are today will not be the way that they are 6 months from now. And so were consistently trying to keep up with that. Which means you really have to do sort of zone in on what is working for you, your company in your audience instead of worrying about how do I make everything work for me
because it's just not gonna happen. Right now. Sourced and conversation. So I I I think Bob we're all saying the same thing or I think we are. I think we are in. It's it's just that whenever you get into the data question, it, it just is such an exhausting problem. There are so many different data platforms at work at once. And there's no way to get away from silos. But there is a way to have these platforms play nicer
together and communicate better in and enable them to activate faster on what needs to be done in order to satisfy the customer, and it's just like nobody seems to have any solutions yet to this problem. It's it's something that we know needs to be fixed. But how does it get fixed? Is it operational fixes it up technology fix? I don't think the I think the answer is still outstanding on them. I know the answer
you just use the 1 platform as it's got to wrap around you everything. Now, I don't know a single I don't know a single company out there that's adopted was single blood for multiple platforms. Both. Well, anyway, we'll move on. And we're going to talk next about Wendy, sure, creative ideas. It's an interesting article over a medium that. Kinda sets the stage for why certain agencies are more creative than others. We'll get to that in just a
minute. But first a word from Admiral. After months of strategizing and prepping budgets and looking at how we're going to position ourselves in the market. I didn't have anyone to fall back on. And I remember pulling the lever for all those campaigns spiting, my nails and just staring at the computer pretty much the entire day. This was the moment where okay we hired this guy to do exactly what he's saying. Now, it's up to him to deliver trying to figure out the
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No like, I was mentioning over on medium journalist, Warren Berger examined, the creative dilemma went to share your ideas. Now, the basic premise is that the top creative shops always share as soon as possible and comment often. There was this great example about the Clough's example within TWA Shaya day, how he used to always make the creative show their work as soon as they could in show
iterations and comment on it. Live on a on a wall. Whereas the mediocre talent shops, the ones that do the pedestrian ads, and nobody talks about after they see them, they protect their ideas. And wait until the last minute to share. Now, this is 1 person's opinion, Wendy, but is the fear that others might steal ideas. And this hoarding and withholding of creative concepts until the last minute. Or is it actually harming the creative process? Watch your
your take on that theory. Well, I get creative without collaboration is in creative. At all say, I think if you're at created you absolutely need collaboration sharing your idea how since you share your idea. Well, sometimes I think if you share your idea too soon, it hasn't in a creative is is a process. And so or you're just finished saying that it's just like the creative as a sharing
process. So be it. The Genesis of the idea pop. It comes typically it comes from 1 person. Right. It could come from 5 people, but they all have different creative ideas. So you know, they got bit. If if it's an agency, and they're gonna a pitch an idea then. I'm not sure I really understand what why anybody would wait until the last minute to tell their idea unless your idea completely sucks, and they already know that they have the gig. And
so they're going to share their idea because it's it's doesn't matter or it's a huge account and everybody gets into a room, and they it rate in iterate in iterate, and they make that that concept. Really awesome. You know, I I can't think of a time in my career where my creative didn't get better. My idea didn't get better because I collaborated with the team or with someone else or rotational color palette, or you know, change. The font door did we even in
a in a commercial, and you know, sitting there, and and editing out a commercial you build the story line. And you look at it. And then the editor throw something in you go, you know, what? How can I not thought of that? That's awesome. So, you know, I'm not too sure of the relevancy of this article because it's cut kind of silly. But nobody, but it's not it's not when you dig into it because there are a lot of shops where there is this very real fear of whom maybe not a a a true statement. And may not be
really happening. But there's this real fear that if I show this too soon 'em gun of either have the idea shot down or somehow going to have to deal with someone trying to steal my idea. And and some nebulous, Bob, it's like, what are we talking about here? What is the 2 Sudanese at the to send to the client will that's 1 of the key. Well, that's what I'm asking. Because you express the fact that it may be sharing an idea too.
Soon would not be a productive process. And that there's a certain point where the idea reaches a certain level of germination where it's ready for comment. That's where you can you. Can you clarify sharing the idea too soon to the client or the internal? I'm talking I'm talking internally um definitely talking internally. I mean, maybe with the client if the client's collaborative, but I mean. Yeah. Mainly talking about this idea of of sitting on
that creative idea until it's fully blown out, and then showing it as a piece of art as opposed to showing the concept and its role as form in starting the iterative process of getting comments as early as possible. I think that's a personal a personal thing. I, you know, I there are some great is that they don't they don't want to show their idea until it's perfect. It absolutely. You know? But then there's there's other people that that don't mind working with the team, and and you know, doing it or Asians and coming up with something
as a team. I I really think it really depends on the people you're working with and the brings up another thought Alexa, witches in what is the team because I know the creed of 10 to 1 a hold onto their ideas and keep it within the creative department until the last minute. Before they're willing to share it around the the typical ranks of the account management the account management portion of the agency. I don't know that that's your experience. But
I mean, can you speak to that? I mean, it's just like is there any benefit in getting. Everybody involved in the process of iterating, creative in trying to get a a group think or is that gonna kill or squash ideas, prematurely before they've had chance to nurture. Waas? Absolutely the question. So first off from that perspective and groupthink on you know, a lot of times I've seen I've seen in walked into meetings where there are 50 people in the meeting, and I'm kind of like this is not really the most productive amount of time.
However, you could cut that down to 20 people who are the most crucial people on different teams. And this is something actually gray does really well where we consider ourselves borderless, which means we're borderless between on teams and different units. And also borderless between on sort of our our global agencies. Right. So so near York can work with Brazil and can work with west coast sin. So and so forth. And so I think it's actually really
important to get multiple stakeholders in the room who come from different backgrounds. So for example, as you mentioned earlier, you know, I'm I'm on our innovation team. That was never really viewed quote, unquote, as a creative department lead until you know, this past year, we recognize that while these people actually have a different perspective on briefs then. Most people do an end traditional creatives do. And so when we get in the room with our social media team, our
digital team are traditional team so on and so forth were creating a different conversation around a brief. Then would you know, the standard account strategy created team on 1 specific brand rate? So when you're when you're including a lot of people, I I kind of agree with Wendy where the earlier you do that. And the more collaborative you can be the better and idea can actually be calm because you've got multiple stakeholders and different
viewpoints. Shaping? What it is that your range in the table. Let's let's up I recommend Wharton, obviously, any creative ideas and creative process can benefit from the feedback from the entire agency, or at least the entire team that's working on the account at some point. But how soon should the process begin? I mean, I think that's what's called into question. And you know, y- is a raw
idea meant to be shared throughout the agency in get everybody's feedback. That can be productive, or is it now, you don't know. Now, that's a waste of time up. So when do when would you say the process begins? I mean, it's just like because I I, you know, I having worked in a creative department having dealt with these issues a lot of this is is is really hitting close to home. I mean, yes, having the the
clothesline put out there were all work by the end of the day, how to be hung up on the clothes line and be free to be commented on by anybody walking. By was a really helpful process. In developing creative thoughts it didn't necessarily come down to someone in the account side saying you need to change this. It was just thoughts, and you could take her leave them as you developed your idea. And it was it was a really helpful process. But I can see that too early meddling from
somebody who's not really well suited for dealing with the creative product can be a problematic situation that can actually. For the creative juices that are going on at that gig given time well, creative is so subjective rights after coming up with an idea. You know, have you ever come up with an idea new thought, you know, you run into to to your coworkers office or something like that is a great idea? It just hit me, and you go in and you, and you and you pitch the idea, and they look at you like you're
crazy why because it is not the same thing in their head. Is it is in your head? Right. So an idea has to get to a certain point where it can be represented in presented in a way that people can can visualize it, and I don't know say if you agree with me or not, but where where can be visualize as a team as opposed to visualize as individuals who are stinking something else in there had completely. So you do have to get it to
a certain point before you present. I I believe always. Just go to add to the listening in from the clients is fascinating giving an eye into the other side. And what goes on? And all life. I found it quite interesting trying to collaborate and to get. Upon with agencies because there was this certain distance that has been put in place, and almost your kept out of that cycle that process, and I for me in terms of
mine, allergies. All concept development innovation. Why the Asian processes and very similarly there is a bit of a threshold. Right. You gotta just state it to a degree. But I'm definitely on the side of sharing. Sharon, often sharing early having that close line and getting different inputs and having that sort of diverse and inclusive. Scope of people and participants because the on looks in the greatest ideas when you put, you know, when you bring different people together, and you have a clash of ideas. Which creates something new? So
I'm I'm quite nervous. If there's a sentiment of hey, let's hold off. As long as possible. And Ashley I tend to err on early and often because an providing there's a diverse group of people from different functions different use I told throughout different geographies, different different countries or weld views and to avoid thing that so say critical and from the client side, I'd I'd like to hear that that was definitely happening versus not happening. If I was thinking about potential
agency partners and the best agencies I've worked with I think my bias towards sT definitely the clerk the collaboration upfront. You you're very unusual client, though, I wanna point that out Sam since it's like you. You actually are a great collaborator. Amir somebody who gets in involved with a project. And and really wants to collaborate in the process doesn't wanna just hear about the idea as soon as possible. So that they can go on. I don't like that
you, and I think the the my my pet peeve in marketing is the I know when I see it tight climb. There were too many market as I I mean, I I I'm speaking from again from the client side perspective it too, many Marcus too, many say too, many senior leaders who knows when they see it. Which is why you get 28 revisions. I hate that. It drives me absolutely insane. And so yes, perhaps walk. I is the other the other end because I think there's a lot people haven't who hadn't been trained. Well, he did he night when they said, that's just.
Awful. Because what if you're what if you're wrong, and you got all the power, and you let the decision-making credit rights so safe for me. That's why I you know, I'm on sending out the sentiment. But as I said, I'm listening in from the client side to how the agencies work in his is fascinating to to hit the tension and the challenge in doing it. Well, I think if you. If you always. Ask. The right questions to the client. And you get the answers from the client
as long as you have to do research. You know? So if if if if there's an R P out there, and they say, well, it has to be this this this and purple and blue colours, or whatever I think you have to really deep dig deeper with the client and to give me some give me some visuals. You hate give me some visuals you love, right? Give me show me some examples. I always try to go really deep with the client before I even come up with a
concept. And then that that concept really takes time to because it will change it'll it'll change 3 or 4 times in my own mind before I feel comfortable saying, okay, I've listened to the client. I've done my research. And here is what I believe, you know, it is the concept or the idea, and it I would present that. And my presenting it to the client now on presenting it to my collaborators, Mike, that's pretty typical over
over. Really great, creative healthy, creative department. There Wendy a minutes dislike that kind of approach where you kind of nurtured. You sure you iterative within the organization than you show to the client. But would it would the entire creative process be made better? If more clients were like Sam, and we're willing to accept that the idea that they're seeing is not going to be the idea that's going out live in that were just sharing this as part of the collaborative process and keeping you in the
loop and getting your feedback and making sure that everything's firing throughout this process of coming up with the idea. I mean in theory, that's the way everything should be run in theory. That's the best way to operate. But in practice, it's very rare to come across a person like Sam mean most organizations are exactly he says, you know, it's these people out there marketing directors who are like when I see it. Now, just.
Picket. When I do, you know, the author of this article until Nasr warm bed on a huge fan. He wrote a great book called beautiful question. And it's this idea of the power of inquiry to spot breakthrough ideas, there's the art of asking great questions. And if if you can train Mike, my tip tool agency side, people if you can take help the client Oesterreich help frame right questions, and I think on the cold earlier that came up it's all about asking great questions. Great propelling questions and then step back. So I helped you know, shape and
worked with great questions and let the agency in any other place, perhaps take the lead in in solving that, but it's really opinion in an asking the right fundamental questions. And that is the huge on Logan. He's either in a couple of books about that. But I think that's the core of what is driving hit it that this whole debate is what are the right questions. And how do we get to these Brooklyn Graham propelling questions to unlock the opportunities to to drive solutions will drive growth or to win with that consumer? Well, I'm
going to move on because we are running low on time. And I wanna make sure we get through these next to count 2 young next couple topics. I up millennials are supposedly all on social media. That's over here. All the time. Everybody in the millennial generation is on social media. So of course, marketers sparing, no expense on reaching gen-y individuals on social platforms and yet election research shows that 45 percent of millennials haven't seen a
single political ad this election cycle and brands are still failing a connecting with younger American third less Blair brand loyal than ever before. So alexa. What's going on in? Our marketers betting on the wrong platform for reaching millennials. Wow. So what a load in crushing because we've been talking about this times. So a couple of things I mean, first off a brand really needs to understand where they're
communicating with their audience best and who their audience is. And I said this earlier, and I cannot sort of preach it enough. Just because we we had lots of conversations with all the leading platforms about how we sort of better. Our communication is a representation of our brands, and the biggest thing is, you know. Today's day and age in terms of advertising is no longer that push model where people are willing to see these ads. For
them to actually absorb the ads. It needs to be content that is relevant, and is engaging and frankly, a lot of times content that is actually co created where where consumers feel like they're part of that process. And I think a lot of times what happens is brain get brands get lost and just sort of push out their ads hoping that people see it. But now, we're smarter as a group of consumers, and we sort of just pass through it. And so, you know, when we look at even from the
politics cycle of, you know, I don't I don't know where the the stocks per se come from. But is Facebook the right platform preview doing that is Instagram great platform who knows the point is that you actually need to engage in someone's lifestyle. So that they can feel like they're part of that process. Even if you're an ad, and that's actually how things sort of come to fruition. And and in particular, we've been talking a lot and brands. Frankly have been talking a lot about
'em a influence or marketing, but not even like hardcore influencer marketing, it's more of micro influencers who right boil showed 10000 followers who were the ones that actually have influence, so you know, 6 or 7 years ago. I remembered speaking to a start Bubba difference between influence an influential right people who are small in scale, but have the era of their sort of core group are actually the ones who are
influential versus the people who have influence because they have a 0 plus followers. So it's very different. And this is where a brand needs to get various. Smart in understanding who'd we speak to how do we speak to them properly, and how do we kind of co create the appropriate content that people feel that they're willing to ingest and not even just in Jasper actually, then going speak about to their core group bridges, that's actually helping spread but it's much
closer look connecting with consumers. You also have the issue of whether or not social media as a whole is the best way to connect with a millennial generation. They may be on the platform the rebate using it. Amusing all these different platforms ad nauseam. But it doesn't mean that they're connecting with ads or brand messaging or any kind of other type of communication that's promotional. And for me that leads to the
question is social media. The best platform. For us to be exploring using as opposed to maybe doing live events as another article that was posted in the donuts was was suggesting or are or sending them something in the mail. Then will I remember? There was a stat several years back a much or if it's still true. But you know, it really blew me away. The millennials are more likely to actually pick up the phone
and calls, a call a brand when they have a problem as opposed to using all these chat windows, which seemed to be more adopted by older Americans, Ana. You know for me that blows me away. It shows me that there's a real premium when you're interacting with a brand to actually talk to a human being and the actually connect with live individuals who are actively promoting and representing the brand in a positive light having some kind of experience.
0 percent. This isn't exactly so I mean, I for 1 don't use Facebook as often I've donated every dating app I've ever use. I'm totally in the generation. That's like how do I actually retract from technology as best? I can right. But that's where the brands an endless turn to Wendy's sorta earlier point of how do you leverage other options so too? Direct-mail experiences so on
and so forth. How do you actually circumvent the situation that people are coming off line? And how do you create a better sort of in person experience for what's happening seeing this a lot actually with syrup company is so, you know, at the Caspers of the world ever lane so on and so forth that were typically online direct to consumer companies are actually now leveraging brick and mortar stores, and frankly, performing better in brick and mortar
environments because it's creating an opportunity for people to. Sort of rebel in that brand. Right. And it's it's a very different time. Now where brick and mortar is sort of having its resurgence because the the level of engagement that people want to have in the real world. Instead of just consistently looking down at their phones were hitting a tipping point. It's not there quite yet where people are sort of putting their phones or hey and saying, you know,
never mind a social media platforms, and I don't know that will ever get there. But I do believe that we're becoming a more conscious and mindful group, and particularly as a millennial parents are actually starting to bring up gen Z folk which. You know, they're digital natives without question and gen Z is like the largest growing market right now that's having conversations around all the social media platforms. There's still this millennial parents at sort of helping to educate their children
around how you balance between online and offline experiences and this delicate line and not every brand can play in both spaces. And this is where going back to earlier conversation data is so unbelievably important to understand what is working what's not working and how you leverage that to the best year abilities. Ceremony for this particular, social to forge worker or to take on this amino regional scruple.
This the space was talking about they haven't seen any political ads. And as I I've been just. The press applying that lens of the conversation. It's been really interesting because a lot of the thought leaders and experts saying, you know, the things that you want input from the political ads you either want someone to vote all sending money, and so the grass roots the knocking on doors experience show, local office is everything seems to be pushed very much in local experiences. Unlikable
hands on advocacy and influence as the only way to really change things. If you want to get people to the ballot box, it could be the logistics of local people organizing who they're gonna drive to the polling booths and things like that. So I actually think a lot of that sentiment of the shift influenza, and who are the actual influences on a more micro level versus the macro level, especially in political space seemingly is important. But I mean, I'm just outside of the millennial age cohort. And I know that
Spotify 70 a playlist. Nice thank Spotify. That was but the providing free rights to the polling booths was for me, very on brand very on equity and very relevant to the actual problem. And then third point is. Political ads they tend to the unfortunately climate, they they are kind of negative and horrible. And what in what age group you up at that? I I'm very uncomfortable with the current state of thumb
under just outside Milan. Avoiding that exact because I know that ours out, but but political ads re regardless as the election or anything like that. But the only time pretty much that we see political ads and political ads. I think are targeted a television political ads their local broadcast because for this election. It's it's on the local level. You know, it's stand uncover-up ads or whenever if you're watching CNN in
your senior seeing them more and more on television. I use Instagram a lot you had. And I don't see any political ads on Instagram. I have to be honest with you, I earn and conversely inversely millennials or fleeing from law broadcast news. I mean, those not were for his father is not news. It's it's inserted in programming. So you know, if my son is watching the Laker game or something like this. A political ad is gonna come up. In
other. Why he's watching it on boxing, or whatever. But regardless of whether a boom, boom, boom in the political ads was a convenient way to enter into a conversation. That's a much broader on which is you know, whether or not social media solutions, actively engage with millennials. I mean, the the conventional wisdom is that. If you wanna reach millennials, you go to the platform that the us the most which is. Instagram's watts up Snapchat. You know, it's like the you're going to
get more connection with the people you use these platforms. But that doesn't seem to be the case that live events and actual experiential. And like Sam said getting out there knocking on doors that these are the ways that you can act with the millennial generation. And again, and again, I hate the I hate the I hate the I say this all the time. I I he lumping together entire age group and calling the millennials because obviously that age group is very diverse and has lots of different motivators.
And you know, my tire trope is that every millennial is 1 minivan away from being like everybody else in the in the country. So I mean. You know, it's just like life stages matter and people like the world isn't made up of millennials millennials days Chan acts there's generation Jones, by the way, there's boomers. There's all sorts of different people that need to be targeted. I am. Not sure why Milan. Meals are such a big deal all of the time when it comes to marketing money Nellie
[laughter]. Is it when you said it's 5 in the last 5 years, if he said millennial multicultural you got the money for whatever you are asking for it was a short shorthand being slightly facetious here, but it is a show and to getting away. Now, I think he's big data. Isn't that? Isn't that buzzword that you get funded, sir? I it's a shortcut the yes, it's passe because anyone listening to this knows that if you're going to. Group a bunch of people and say, they're all the same by using a label
is it's it's a flawed mindset. But he's just a shortcut to help us. Explain the well, but yes, and I think a good monitor good advertise. It would now know that that's kind of a bit of an eye roll if he drop millennial and then try and justify what you're trying to do. Or how you doing it wrong? I'm going to move onto the last topic because it dovetails nicely into the social media conversation Twitter has decided that eliminating their like button is the key to enhancing the quality of the conversation on their platform. Sam this is an
interesting thought. And do we believe it's true? Well, I have a confession to make. I updated the Switzer app for the first time in Idlib probably here today because I hate updating social media apps because every time I do that the ad unit gets bigger and more obnoxious and more intrusive. So I find it to the to the death. But anyway, updated it today. And I just discovered that actually they go the book mocking functionality. So get him either. The like button
is feasible because I can still say well, the stuff I want through the bookmark functionality, sir. I actually can see the benefit of it and in all in all seriousness as you start to analyze screen time, and the the huge issues of 'em addiction to these technologies and platforms. I think they're going to have to start doing things to show that they are being more purposeful, immortal, human and a bit more. I'm thinking about the impacts in society by literally removing the light button. And when it's
being shown to have sort of negative consequences negative behaviors. In the real world. So I think it was some 80 something that they can remove because the for me the benefit was saving stuff. I want to get back to easily and that wasn't liking it that was book mocking it. And so I I think it could be true. And I would be all for getting rid of it. You know? So I know a lot of social media managers out. There are not upset about this this news because 1 of the first things I
heard from a lotta social media managers about the Twitter like button is that they absolutely hate it. It's not a meaningful engagement in any way, shape or form in that. You know, really when you're on Twitter, you want to go for the re tweet or you want to go for the comment, you need to get engagement with the content, and you need to get amplification from the content. But the last thing you need is this like like button that has absolutely no relevance in doesn't raise the profile of what you're actually saying. And I think that.
Clearly, this is not about raising the quality of conversations as much as inspiring people to take action on the content in a way that's going to benefit the brands were advertising on this platform. So I'm calling Bs on the quality of conversation here. Alexa. I don't know about you. But I mean, I'm just like looking at this ongoing. This is entirely a move meant to satisfy brand managers. At all. I'm a funny enough, I'm
laughing here with Sam about how he has not updated the app in a while. And they haven't even knew that the abbot awhile because I got so bored with it. The 1 didn't all say though, from a psychological perspective. And and this is something that I'm actually deeply passionate about just as a human being not as a marketer. But just how social media impacts our brain. And the way that we psychologically interact with the world, right? So we all understand that every time you
get a like, whether it's on Twitter or on Facebook or on Instagram or a heart or whatever that is a burst of dopamine. Right. And so the way that I look at it is every time that someone lakes. Something it is is leaning towards social proof. And it's giving whatever perspective or whatever comment. Someone is making is is giving more weight to what someone is saying. And so taking that taking that button
away sort of vegans the playing field, I guess you could save from how people are receiving the public opinion. And how you then potentially. And frankly, subconsciously sort of meld your thoughts into what it is that you're that you're liking. And so it's a very interesting thing. I you know, I would have a different and probably more passionate answer. If it were either Facebook or
Instagram as a platform, it's just funny that this is Twitter, and I feel like Twitter, unfortunately, at this point in time is figuring out how to the play in this world of. Social media conversation. And this might be some way that they're sort of injecting themselves and figuring out it Harvey reinvent themselves. Frankly to be part of that. New frontier so can can this be clarified for me a little bit? So are we only
talking about? Ads and ads likes on Twitter. Are we talking about the conversations that are happening on campus is talking they're talking about removing the load button the little heart boots on the body is talking about removing the completely from the platform in order to inspire a higher muddied conversation instead of these? You know, these drives for lakes, which quite frankly, I don't understand because like I say social media managers do not like the lakes, they're not selling that's used them.
So isn't it kind of 2 different things? And if it's a it's if it's the conversation happening on Twitter, and it's just a conversation about, you know, what's happening today or something this guy in the in the news or something like this. And if it was for and the ad as a marketer. I think I would want the like button to stay on my ad, right? As a writer for conversation. I I could care less really about growing. What what were most social
media matters is why most brands or on Twitter is to generate amplification for their message. And you don't get any amplification from the like, you only get amplification from retweets so retweets of the gold standard, the reach sharing of content and the commenting and actually engaging with the content is useful for informational purposes and understanding. What the client desires what the customer is looking for. You know, these types of engagements are very
valuable the like on Twitter has always been in also run. It was initially a book marking function that was just kind of turned into alike. And that's the problem with it. I mean, it's just like it it serves no purpose. But I just still believe that it's has no meaning for trying to create deeper conversation. This move is all about just getting people to retweet content, which is going to make the platform more valuable to the brands were involved with it. But. Well, I gotta move on. It's time for
the ad fell. 5 before we get to that segment of the show. I do want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guests again and allow them to each to a shameless plug starting with Wendy Cooper, you can find her Lumina.com. That's the home of luminary productions your she is doing fantastic work. I'll let her explain at what's going on in your world. What would you like to promote? Well, yes, I am at lemon. I on we work. I wait that movie trailers at Lemmon isolates up at
supposed facility, but we work with the big movie trailers that you see. So it's visual effects and things like that. So if anybody has a movie trailer, and they need visual effects are 3 D conversions or anything like that. Then give me a call there. But what I really wanted him out is my new podcast. So it is called generation Jones. It is conversations with remarkable people that shape our world. And for those of you that don't know. And it seems like there's a heck of a lot people that don't generation Jones are the people that are born between 19 54 in 19
64. They are 50000000 strong. And they are the by the way, most influential. Piece of the population currently alive. And so I just wanted to focus in on my new podcast on the wisdom of this generation and the power of this generation and have great conversations with wonderful people that really continue to shape our our world. So that's what I'm doing. And you can find it. A
generation Jones podcasts.com or anywhere. You download your podcast. You can find lots of information about this podcast have been really following this refer a lot of anticipation. So thank you very much for your efforts on that. And definitely of realtor. Should check out the show next up. We have Alexa depot squall you can find her a grey.com. That's the home of great group. Which is the mother ship for grey advertising and many other great fine
operations within the that particular operating segment of the WPA. So tell us what's going on in your world. Alexa. What would you like to promote? Absolutely. So I would love for you know, anyone who's looking for an injection of creativity across all your platforms. We do it all obviously greatest a global agency that sort of Foster's all invest brands in the world. And so I'm very very proud to be part of the organization and sort of
leading the innovation group. And from a personal note. I'd love to promote following me on Instagram. It's F L E X Y D flexi d I m super involved in the fitness world. I'm a competitive powerlifter and have recently started retraining for different things. And so I'm a huge believer that your health and wellness comes first, and that ultimately creates better creativity in that sort of why I'm creating an
environment between fitness and. The advertising world that I am in. So for Dr merge thing farther involved with last remotely ceremony. You can find him a Campbell's.com, you know, the name [laughter]. It's the same company that brings you the soups. So tell us what's going on in your world. Sam what would you like to promote? Well, but thanks for that.
I'm Brant luck. So am I think he did it so wonderfully I'm gonna give back to the audience. And I'm gonna say there was we talked earlier about the story from when to share creative ideas. And I mentioned the all 3 of 'em that peace and the book called a more beautiful question. I think he's got a new book coming out, but it some by Warren Berger, and it's this idea of just asking great, I'm propelling questions and the odd of doing that. And why so hard and why we find it really difficult as people, especially as you get more get older in in your career
Jacci tend to oscalus questions, but that can unlock your business challenges. So I'm gonna plug worn Burgas books because I I use them, and I find them helpful in solving my business challenges. So they got both fantastic. Yeah. Definitely out there. Check out his books. That's a good recommendations. And as for me for more information about me or the show. Visit the being cast.com there you can find a complete show archive. You can find out how to consult with me. You can even find out how to advertise
on the program. So check it all out at the being cast.com. And don't forget we now have transcription services from transcribe me.com. Go to transcribe me.com/being cast. They'll give you 25 percent off your first offer for your first transcription. So check it out at transcribe me.com/being cast. And now it's time for the ad fell 5 or rundown of the lowest moments in advertising marketing public relations from the last week. And I up the surest
sign that people may be lying to you is when they're selling you something they won't let their kids get near. The New York Times expose the fact though, like so that this this is exactly what's happening to the tech world there addicting us to the wraps while banning mobile screens from their own children. I thought this article was fascinating. When I read it because I'm sitting there going. Yeah. This makes total sense. You know, it's like the people closest to the technology would know how
harmful it is. Okay. I'm lacking along with you. Because unfortunately, this is so true. I do see though that the companies are as best they can trying to create ways that we become more mindful be saying so funny enough actually 48 hours ago, I received my first ever report. For my new iphone that said, you know, you've spent 10 percent less time on your screens.
They have previously. So they're now building in these features that allow individuals to become mindful of how much time they're spending because you know, again, unfortunately, this isn't addictive device. And now what they're trying to help us understand is how you decide when word but on addict yourself, which is become more mindful. How much time you're spending and what you're doing on it. It's really difficult though, an watching I
fall victim to this all the time. So it is it is hard. I think the biggest thing that I've seen particularly and I am not a bomb. But I've seen people who are about to be moms or new moms. You know, and family is frankly helped to kind of craft the amount of time that 1 interacts with the screen and understand what that interaction looks like feels like how that works. As an interaction
at what they're doing on those screens. I think a monitoring some of that is really important. But listen, it's you know, a. It. It makes me giggle because it's true. It's really hard to detach people from what is addicting. It's it's actually pretty simple. You know, your iphone or your ipod is not the babysitter. At the heart of this technology, Subhi parents understand that you can't just leave the device unattended with your child that you
need more control over it will next up Facebook may be saying that everything's under control saying that they're getting their problems under control and the user ship is still going up. But a recent study shows that half of all users age 18 to 29 Sam have deleted the app over the last year. That's not exactly a great statistic, especially since that represents the entire future of their organization. Yeah.
I think Facebook on hurting while they're a little bit. But they're not doing too badly. Right. And not now they're they're doing fine now. But this this numbers pretty bad considering the fact that this is the future of the revenue that is true. But I think when I read the article they will say that study didn't quite capture pariah, perhaps people reinstalling the apps [laughter]. What is he's deleted today? And then reinstall it denied it may just be driven by running out of memory on your phone, but in all seriousness. This is a 1 on
1 right in terms of reputation management and a lot of fakes normalization spend that time building brand trust and reputation reputation management, and you could probably you can measure it in the downloads all the on installing of their app as their tracker of what's happening to the reputations awhile used to measure equity in all of other little PNL line items for these types of social media companies. This is kind of a good measure of what's happening to their business. If people are deleting their apps from their phones, while speaking of the next step that's gonna get
deleted her. Remember, what's up, Wendy? Remember their promise to never have ads. They're getting ads actually I just started using WhatsApp when I went to Europe because everybody over there uses what's up, and you know, of course, they're gonna put ads in their Facebook owns it. I everybody knew everybody knew this was gonna half not a surprise. But surprise. Next up. What
happens when you're accused of sexual misconduct in your company finds the allegations credible. Alexa. Well, if you're Andy Rubin of Google, the father of Android, you walk away with a 90000000 dollars severance pay day and caused a huge stern. A walkout of 'em employee's that offices around the world asking for better management of sexual is some well, basically bad behavior within their organization. This is
really is really shocking. Another great piece from the New York Times that expose this happening. Yes. And great. And I think the biggest thing is these things happen. And then the most important thing is how do you solve for that for the future? So what types of programs are you putting in place what types of training, or are you putting in place? What types of data driven conversations? Are you putting in place to try and solve for that? But it's you know, it it's it's something
that still needs to be tackled today. Obsolete kudos to Google. Whereas for not least be a bow. And our rouce beauty company was called out for its claims that their false eyelashes meat of mink for were cruelty free because no animals were killed in the making you see some, you know, pay attention here, you see the Manx were just ask to politely sit still in their cages while they
got a quick haircut. You know, this is the most bizarre thing. Okay. No minks were harmed. But the only way to make this happen is we've got a cage minks and keep them on file. So that we can give them haircuts every once in a while to make our eyelashes. Yea a for. I'd like to think it was in a genuine mistake. Although you may see it as a publicity is good publicity. So let's hope that this was an honest mistake or a misstep
verses. How if this we could do this to kind of get some? And media coverage. We say the cynic in me my thing. But now, I'm I'm I think they've apologized and fixed it, so that's the main thing because yes, they did not a good look at. Honestly, I think doesn't normally take 1 may to make a whole lot of eyelashes. It seems to me that if you had that 1 very furry may get up enough to make as many eyelashes has been made. But I don't know much. I don't know much about Mink's, nor do I know much about fall Sockalexis.
Thank you for being the best. I could have something to add to this list or just want to discuss it common online. Use the hashtag add fell 5. That's pound. Add and the number 5. And that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this podcast, visit our website at the being cast.com and click on the subscribe link if you're an I tunes listener, we've also provided a direct link to the teens music store or
just search for the being cast in the podcast directory of I tunes and whichever podcast directory us when you subscribe, please leave reserve you got a comment of a question. We'd love to hear from you just send your emails the bean cast a gmaiLcom opening theme was performed by. Joe Cambell closing theme by C Jack's thanks for listening. I'm Bob nork. We'll be back again next week. Hope you'll join us, then