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For Monday, June 25th 2000 t- it's time for this week's addition of the beam cows, a weekly discussion about the news and issues facing marketers today host Bob, nor. Thanks for joining
us. Think we understand how to do social after all. We got over a decade of experience that says we're doing the right. But what if we're really getting it all wrong? How would we rare objectives in lines with consumer desire to tonight will discuss also whether mummy bloggers of killed their legitimacy five g will change or business. The limitations of global ad campaigns. Plus this week's
Advil five. That's the lineup. Lets me tonight. Thanks for joining us for this week's beam test. I'm Bob nor and with me on the panel for this evening, we start with the social and influence or communications lead for global markets at IBM MS brandy boner. Boy, that's a that's a mouthful of a title. Their brandy. It is pretty long, Bob,
sorry. That's great. It's a very, very impressive. But also with three of the marketing strategies for content agency, noble mouths, mister. How Thomas joins us? Hi, how. If Bob glad to be back. Now next up were pleased to welcome the managing director of Canadian consultancy Colt collective mister Mark white hood. Hey, Mark led to have you here. Bob, always pleasure. And finally, we have the executive vice president of audience
science, adviser, calm, mister Julian's over brand Hague, Jillian. Abe optics to have me back a mixture of say something incredibly controversial [laughter]. Well, controversial may be, but definitely interesting because we've got a lot of really, really cool stuff to talk about this evening and first stop a recent study seems to suggest that while most brands focused their social efforts on education engagement or inspiration in that order, according to the study, most consumers look
to look to brands to provide things like, oh, discounts and product info and learning opportunities. So well, there's a little bit of overlap on education. For the most part. They're non aligned. Not to mention the jury is increasingly out on whether engagement even matters in any context of advertising. A lot of people are going on in the question which leads me to wonder brandy. Are we getting social completely wrong? Is there a major
disconnect that needs to be addressed here by the industry? Yeah, well Bob, I don't necessarily think that we're getting it wrong. I think we need to put the social back into social media as far as like interaction. Like you said, the study is suggesting you want like discounts. Product in favor of learning, though it doesn't have to necessarily just be a coupon, or you know, are free entry or you know one extra night day at the hotel, but really it it
should be well, how do we make that more social with a mix of of online and off line li- think we're forgetting that part. So I think there's a little. But if a disconnect do I think it's earth shattering doll, but I do think if if customers want and we know mobile reigns supreme, Philip, I wanna get a coupon. Or if I want to get some kind of something, a pre coffee. Free Donut for national. Don't update whatever. Whatever it is, give me that coupon, but do something off
line as well to make it social. Right for me to wanna keep. Interacting with the brand or to be loyal. So I think we really need to put the social back and social media that we're getting in wrong. I'm not necessary. I'm not necessarily agreeing with this. I mean, I listen to this study when I when I read this study, I got the impression. The what consumers wanted was actually less social engagement. They wanted to engage with with brands on social media. But in terms of
very due, the -tarian uses like. Tell me about your latest products, tell me about the you know the offers and discounts you have give us some educational materials. They're not interested in engaging with the brand in in kind of meaningful social way, and it didn't seem like they were interested in inspirational posts, which is kind of this staple. Of social advertising social media marketing. So. It feels when I'm when I'm watching when I'm reading this
study, it feels like there is this major disconnect between what the brands are doing. And what the consumers are actually asking for Rome. So what study I mean I don't I don't know what this is from. Well, I mean as with all studies withal studies at at and that I personally, but I'd love to know what consumers. You know who did this and who they talk to within a certain demographic? I'm looking at this again, going back to like what I said
about. Putting a social back and social media look at what's going on with the World Cup have already been following the World Cup. And just she just kinda you know what? We're guard birth. If you think the U s.. Doesn't like soccer or not? The World Cup is going on right now. I can't tell you the number of. Countries and brands, and commercials, and things that are literally driving this. You know, we are one world rushes so wonderful because of what happened a
and look at issue and look at this player. I mean, if you want to talk about nobody knew wife is running out the ball by ball. Right, nobody's ran out of the World Cup. Let me get my Crete together with nobody cares. Nobody cares about that. But they want this like this whole frenzy of a World Cup. So again, I don't know what study it was, but I'm going to go back to the what I see. And just for my brand and avid business, I don't even sell directly to consumers are, but people want people are sharing content. They want experience that they
want to be social. So I have to see this to see who was surveyed, what demo, where our day to say that, oh my God, there's a huge gap that we should be worried about. I think it's way might be a healthy mix of both. If you if you're if you're thinking about it. Like at the end of the day, consumers do what utility. And I would say obviously variable on the brand. They don't necessarily want to have a conversation with a brand because it doesn't feel necessarily natural. But at the same
time, I do think that they're in the social world. You do have to look to engage in a social manner. So it might very well be it just a very healthy mix of vote regardless of what the study said, because it took Britney makes a great point. Who are the people in the study? Because I don't remember in the article hearing any reference to exactly the depth and end the demographics on who participated in this study. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. We always we always say on the show without a doubt that every
study needs to be taken with a major grain of salt. So understand I'm playing I'm playing devil's advocate here, but at the same time at the same time. You know, there has been a lot of talk for a number of years about whether brand of other brands should be engaging in a friendly social manner with consumers on a regular basis, whether there's any kind of real value in that, as opposed to providing services being there to listen to the needs and
provide services to the consumers that allying with where the consumer desires. And it seems that we're we're trying so hard to be friendly and fun via social media, and I'm not sure you're getting the kind of results that you can get if you were a little bit more utilitarian in your approach. Yeah, but I do think it I think it just again, going utilitarian depending on the brand and depending on the consumer. Yeah, you might want the
discount, but wouldn't it be nice like after I got the discount, if I just want the utility, wouldn't it be nice to sprinkle just a little bit of vanity in there and be like, hey, when I went into the store, I got an alert on my phone. That was like, thank you for shopping or thinking for coming in with your coupon, like something to make it a little bit more social, a little bit more. Human interaction, regardless at the end of the day between brand and consumer were humans. There is a there humans behind the brand, and depending on what the brand is, it can be experienced through the
humans that work there and we the consumer, you know, a human. So again, with mobile reigning supreme, I do think there's you have to have a balance of utility and banditti because I don't care who you are. You want the vanity. And then I think you're right brandy in that when you feel the humanity brand through their social activities, I think you tend to engage with them. I think there's just not enough marketers who are doing that well. I mean, there are too many posts in my Instagram feed. That are really just a brand trying
to bring to my attention. Some kind of a product they want to sell me, right and it. And I think in the absence of bringing humanity to some of those conversations, people are saying, well, I guess this is an ad like all the rest of the ads they're doing. I expect those ads to do the same things as the traditional ads are doing. Show me what's on discount. Show me what's up a new product that sh- that I should pay attention to too, but don't try and build a relationship with me. That is an honest and sincere and authentic and is based on what mine needs and my interests are in the brand.
Than the other way around. So you I think you see some brands that disastrous of the world building great camaraderie with their audiences through social media. And you're seeing a lot of other ones who haven't quite figured out exactly what you're saying. Brandy that you need to build report, and you need to start to to show the human side of your in an empathy in in any of the kind of conversations that you're having with immoral gloomy tag onto the zapper story. Because you know we can we can use up as as a good example
of. Consumer engagement on social media, but the reason that they get to have that social engagement is because they've lived. And created an experience of branding that exists off line. And people have taken that experience of being off line and they've translated into permission to communicate with the brand. On an ongoing basis, I think the trouble with social media for most brands is we go on social media,
and we try to create a brand experience from that zero. We we try to create awareness or some kind of engagement with our product, or we try to be more clever than the other brand. And we're really not doing the heavy lifting all flying in order to gain the permission to do that kind of marketing. Completely agree with you. And I think that plunge shoe is that not enough. Marketers are looking at the entirety of the customer journey. They're
looking at a moment in time with the social post in say, what do I want to achieve as a brand in that particular moment? I don't think they're spending enough time thinking, where did that consumer come from to get to that moment in time? And where do both the consumer in the brand want the relationship to go on the other side of it? They're looking at in a silo in a vacuum in saying, how can I maximize whatever kind of a post I've had numerous. I'll call them conversations. I should probably use a harsher word with
mine who, who, who, who talk about, you know, I want to maximize how they are judging engagement, which is likes and shares. And things like that to me, engagement is, is a way bigger conversation than those particular be eight years that they are seeking to maximize with an individual post. Engagement has always been an has been for very long time. He very subjective. Cape youy that not a lot of people can defined
effectively for their own brands. I think that's a lot of problems that so marketers had is defining the K p. I effectively understanding exactly what engagement means because alike. In many cases might be considered engagement, but in other cases might not be considered a valuable engagement. Depends, right. How are you looking at your consumer? What is their lifetime value? What are you trying to get within the lifetime value that consumer? What is the lifetime value that you're going to give back to that consumer? What is your relationship and how do I
maintain that over the course of multiple platforms environments? And you know, off-line, online, whatever it is and more brands that go about it from that manner. It's kind of what everybody saying you're the more successful the brain is going to be in having a relationship with their consumer. You know, just like the like dating. I [laughter] single female. Of the panel here, living in Manhattan, you can't give it up too soon. Click you just can't. When you are in, I think you
use this apple example because they have built a relationship. They started out with like birthday. Birth date went well want to see em again and again and again, they've built the relationship with their consumer is like you said. Online, you get the discount off line, there's inexperience there. And not quit that where people are trying to crack the code. But if you give back back down to like we are human and treat it like dating, maybe not like the rules dating where you don't call, you know, and you're not close the day after Wednesday kind of thing,
but you should treat it the thing. That lay you haven't effectively. You're both parties are going to get something out of a fruitful relations. Yep. I'll never never tweet your consumer after the first date. [laughter] who? Just something that a deal or Wednesday prey, I swear. No, something, something that Julian said, I want to come back to her because Julian, you brought up the engagement metric problem. And there was this really interesting article that was
published this past week. About how engagement kind of sprang on the internet. From a really, really bad place and he likens it back to the touch. The monkey. You know, the touch, the monkey, which is vilified in advertising history as being one of the worst banner ads ever is really one of the first engagement adds people engaged with the touch, the monkey banner. And after that ever after that, we've always been
siege is seeking and searching for that elusive engagement metric. And we're not really having a whole lot of success with it. Are we too focused on engagement as opposed to really trying to create relationships really trying to provide services and really for trying to provide some kind of meaningful interactions with our consumers, or are we just caught up in a feedback loop of engagement? How I haven't heard from you yet? What are your thoughts on that?
Maybe not [laughter]. Well again, I think it really generally starts off with understanding what does engagement means for you in your brand. You know, for us, obviously engagement really ends up being. Did you watch. The content that we put out and so we have a much clearer kind of objective for what engagement is, but engagement for a lot of other brands, whether that be C p. G brands or consumer
electronics or whatever it is. It could be a little bit more. You know, fluffy in what is considered an engagement. And you know, marketers really have to spend a lot more time really defining what that engagement metric is for them. Because there's a lot of variable little touch points which you can engage with the consumer which have less meaning to you then than others. And I think it's really important for you to be able to define exactly what engagement means for you and then
aimed for that. And then I can't say at that point, that engagement is invaluable metric. For me, if somebody watches the piece of content that we've put out, whether that be from whatever brand were putting out content from, then that's a very useful engagement for me. That's that's an opportunity for me and my brand to make sure that people watch the content that we are putting out, enjoy it, and then hopefully they watch war. That's a useful engagement metric. So I can't say that that's not valuable. On the other hand, if somebody depresses like
but didn't watch the video, that of course, that's a waste of engagement. And at that point, that's that's not something that I would look to you as a K p. I that I would find value in. So we think defining it at an individual brand level is where we need to start. And at that point, I think engagement can be considered very valuable and absolutely has not jump the shark. It absolutely is not jump the shark in. Any only thing that I would maybe take a little bit of issue with you is in is in our agencies perspective. In my perspective, engagement is
not a behavior. I behavior happens because of engagement people have in in the way we define engagement is an attitude that you have two words, a brand, a predisposition to behave in a certain way. And the way we define it is, how do you feel I want to feel about that brand? What do you believe about that brand in our contention? Is those feelings and beliefs are the attitudes that you have that build predisposition for you to behave with the brand to click that like button
to transact, to advocate, to share all of those kinds of things. But I understand why you say that because up until now and I agree with you there have not been enough and has not been enough work down around studying in in identifying the measures of engagement. And I'll give you a little a- agricultural at the end of this conversation about a web web in R that I'm hosting this coming week. That is all about this topic. One last question I have on on this
subject before we move on is it's it's the fact that in social media we've talked over and over again about the importance of listening tour consumers. Any seems like most engagement efforts most efforts by social media managers online for brands are very focused on saying and doing in showing how clever and cool in and relatable. The brand is as opposed to just sitting quietly listening and then
being ready to jump in and help. And I know that this gets into the area of customer service, which is a completely different area brandy, you know, it's just like marketing P r. customer service, they all talk to each other. But there there are different operating units within a brand, but. Is it more important to be listening to create great opportunities for the crafting surprise and delight as opposed to you know, just being clever as possible?
Well, I think there's a time and a place for a clever and witty I do think that brand you need to reckon with until what because you wanna you wanna be a part of the conversation. You don't want to just adenoids to the conversation, which is what I think 90% of social media. Margaret, isn't it just noise when you tweet fifteen times of the day, we are both interested gram 20 times a day. You're not listening and you're so busy trying to get out your message. You don't even know like isn't resonating of people. Is this what people are even talking about? So I think it's a little
bit of both, but I do think there are things that are like moments in crime where if I want to post something on may 4th. The tag, along or to trend Jack, may the force be with you to show that my brand is so clever and clear, and we like Star Wars. Yeah, but am I going to do that on may 5th for single denial or denial post and then on may thick. The may seven I mean, it doesn't happen. It doesn't have to continue. You're going to go down this more tax. Where you can keep you know, trying to be funny though. I think it you
have to listen. You have to listen to show up where the consumers are and contribute. So the conversation not add to the noise, you know, the were overwhelmed with the messages that we get in the course of a day is just to be, you know, I say very similar to like meditation brand me into practice, non reactive awareness. When it comes to social conversation, right, if you tweet, may the force be with you whether or not you get a thousand likes on it, really? Does it matter? Does it
does it doesn't say anything about how those people feel about your brand? It was a moment in time, maybe so baby. Their reaction has. Something to do with liking your brand or maybe not. Maybe that's not where you look for what the engagement is. And I think it's fair, you know, you said before, you know about behavior and things of that nature. And yes, behavior is in direct impact of engagement. But again, you know you're talking about understanding when to reach went to have a conversation with the consumer and went to have.
Utility for consumer and managing that specifically at the platform level and manage in that specifically in a manner that allows you to have a relationship. And those things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. It just like making a decision when you have some folks over for dinner. When you stop the social or political conversation and offer somebody a coffee. Wrong in a move on to the next topic, because I think we've got how back how do we have you here?
How is something? Some admiralty I'm back. Okay, fantastic. Cut held back just in time for us, the going through the next topic, one of the course Staples of social influence marketing has always been the mommy blogger. Since we're on social media, we might as well continue this conversation. And yet as more and more of these individuals are exposed to be doing things like faking audience and engaging in other questionable practices that piss off marketers. How is it time to rethink per
grams that work with bloggers as a whole? What's your take? I know the you do a lot of work with bloggers were have in the past. What would you say that? Well, first of all, Bob, let me just say that I'm so excited that you gave me this question because you know as a big bearded cowboy boot wherein white dude from the south, I feel especially qualified to talk about mommy bloggers [laughter]. I honestly I I feel like I might need a photo lady friend on this when I did
the last thing I want to do is be Nance planing. We've got new mothers on the or for all, but I know I'm not sure [laughter]. So me thought about it, but I did attend to block her conference was so great. Mommy I'm she's not a blogger but she's awesome [laughter]. I know a hobby [laughter]. Well, I guess we'll talk about the fraud part in a minute, but I think. I've been thinking about this a lot as it sharing this. This
topic came up on the show tonight because I've been thinking in the last couple of months a lot about influence or marketing and the the way we deal with the influencers and bloggers and things like that, and I can't help, but wonder if somewhere along the way we've. We've we've may be a confused, a true influ- the ability to actually influence people. So we've confused a true influence her with an entertainer. That's not to say that in entertainment
can't be informative in s- in some way or another. But I mean, if you think about it, a lot of folks state gain audiences, especially nowadays whether it's through you too were Instagram or snapped chatter, stuff like that. They are very good at entertaining people, right? And so that's what why some of them get very big, legitimate followings. But the ability and entertain doesn't always translate to the ability to be able to influence to literally change
behavior. And so I wonder if maybe we've been expecting a little too much in that regard. A little too much and were in just legitimacy. I mean, it's a like or as opposed to just expecting them to be nothing more than entertainers and not really getting the value though we hoped out of them. I'm not exactly an yet. Well, then let me elaborate. So. So I'll use a traditional example like e- with with where everyone's familiar
with say, even with the celebrity endorsement. You know, I I like Danny devito. I like George Clooney. I liked your movies and I find them more, you know, somewhat entertaining in the Brussels commercials. But I don't know that that George Clooney or or Danny devito necessarily would be influencers in the sense that they're actually able to influence because of who they are. My ability to decide to buy an Espresso. I think maybe when it comes to some of the influence or marketing,
and this is not true of everyone that's pegged in influence her. But I think what we're beginning to see is a lot of the so-called influencers are good about attracting an audience, but but but maybe they aren't as good about being able to actually influence again, which is why it I think maybe there's a lot of. So called influencers that that are are really more entertainers and others there. They're really good about drawing a following, but can they really, really shift someone's behavior and setting, you
know and go from? You know, somebody enjoys watching, you know, YouTube program to actually buying products or services that they might recommend. I want to know, do you guys really want to go out with my Lincoln because you think that Matthew mcconaughey anthrax one? That's the that's a whole different argument, you know, because when we're talking about endorsers that's been a classic. It's it's been a classic advertising technique for for since the beginning. I mean, we get a famous
person. We take their fans and we'd kick their audience and we try to make people aware about our product. Does it actually move product? Maybe a few it's certainly creeds, buzz and it creates awareness, but the the whole idea about influence or marketing is we're trying to gain legitimacy, right? I mean, brandy, this is your your belly Rex a you told me. I mean we're we're trying to actually feed into the recommendations because they're an expert on this
subject matter. And we depend upon the audience to be well informed, well educated and trusting of the person, making the recommendation. So conceivably influence or marketing, or in any kind of blogger marketing is essentially trying to take that influence and apply it to the brand. So if if it's true, what, how saying are we wasting money on entertainers? So all were getting his endorsers which are not as powerful as
influencers. And is that really an effective strategy to work with second tier celebrities? Yeah, I fell again, I so this is what I do, so I don't want you know how not to steal your thumb there. But I mean this is I do run our influence our program. So I do deal with influence errors in the way that I break down there. Never. You know, just because I have to stay true to my brand. My brain is 107 years old. We're not going to put a car dashboard in l a mainframe or have acquired ashen play Watson that's does
not doesn't allying with our brands. That would probably be dope. I'm not going to law. It would [laughter]. And what? Because they're geniuses aha [laughter]. How we look at influencers, Canada to weigh about legitimacy. We have to look at people that add value, especially when you're talking about technology and some of the technology that we're doing. So we break them down into three categories. And this is just now I don't know other
brands. He doesn't know a by a common guy said something similar, but you're either a thought leader, an advocate or a customer. And by advocate, that could be you you're an academic year, somebody you know who hide deep, deep expertise. You might be an architect, you might be someone that design something. You're an advocate of the technology that we're talking about. So either you're thought leader, you know, you've come up with a patent, you written a billion papers, a book, whatever. You're an advocate in your customer.
Nowhere in those three in the way that we run our program on my program is, oh my gosh, if you have a million followers, I definitely want you to kind of my influence forever because I don't know if birth on it. No of those million followers are legitimate. Followers, I don't know. He bought a list. Oh followers, I don't know if they're the people that I would want to reach. And you know, it's the whole quality over quantity. There are a lot of I mean that is an actual title that people put on their resumes, and
that people are validating is social media personality or social media celebrity. I am one who loves pop culture. So I don't know if you guys watch the bachelor or the very first episode of the bachelorette the very first episode, the bachelorette asked, what do you do for a living and no lie? The man said on the social media personality. And what does that mean? What it? What does he do? Exactly. So actually agree with that. A hundred percent
agree with everything you're saying a- and wasn't necessarily trying to take it contrarian point of view. This is where it can a leads into this idea of fraud. I think. Five years ago, certainly, 10 years ago, five years ago. I think I'll a lot of what we were starting to see in terms of what we would see now call social media influencers. I think there was a lot less of were fewer of them, but I I feel like they were it was easier to separate the wheat from the chaff, right? Because you didn't have so
many pretenders out there, you know, with a million subscribers on YouTube and stuff like that. Now that now that social media influence has become a thing, you're absolutely right. You have people who grow up and well, what do you want to do? Well, it's like, why would it be a social media person? I want to be a YouTube personality. And so when you have somebody like that and. I tend to feel so I don't have data on this, but but I tend to feel like they're they're starting to be a lot more
of those type of people that are that are being bandied around as as influence or seizure people who grew up wanting to be basically in the limelight. They weren't necessarily people who came about. Because as you said, they they slowly built in audience a quality Ali audience because of their expertise about a thing. Because when you do that, then you usually when people look at you as an expert on thing, you do have the ability to influence or shape decision making.
And so, as I said, my overall statement was is really just kind of a commentary over it feels like the mass of this thing is going. And so as more and more people try to get that into this to be personalities essentially entertainers. We're going to start to see a lot more of this, where people start to start to biased, subscribers by followers by views and things like that, and it is going to become a lot harder for us, fine quality folks. I think what brandy said is really I mean you
both big, fantastic vertical Brady said is really interesting, which is. No, again, breaking it down to one defining what is an influence her. Specifically, what are you trying to influence? Who are the right people that you're engaging with to kind of make sure that those those. Those functions are being met, and I think it's it's important to kind of differentiate between, you know what, how saying which is you know somebody's just a personality or an entertainer, or somebody is an expert in something
and people listen to them because they understand and know what they're talking about. Trust them and therefore could influence. How they might look at a product or brand? So I think that the first misstep that a lot of workers make. It's a simply say, hate this individual has a bunch of eyeballs in it, so that is an influence, sir. And that's not always the case might be the case sometimes. But most of the time it's not and delineating data and understanding that is where I think a lot of people are making mistakes while we're talking about the forget about just the
fraudulent part of it is obviously that's that's in and of itself a concern in terms of, you know, the quality of an audience and how much work you've dog to validate, the person that you're engaging with and ensuring that they have no quality audience. But like again, are they capable of actually driving up the API, your versus somebody to everybody else's point? Somebody that's just an entertainer and not necessarily somebody that somebody's going to listen to. Yep. Have I I love I love you. Checklist there, Jillian and and and I think it's right and and the other
thing that I am concerned about is, you know too many marketers are accepting the propaganda from influencers who were saying, you know, not just here is the size of my audience, but here are here is how I influencing all these people. I think marketers, it's still incumbent upon them, and I am sure this is probably what you do grand use is you gotta do some legwork to kinda due to the vet and filter that these people are what they say that. Yeah. And the propaganda that they are going to spill. But in the end, I must smartest
guy in the room doesn't mean you're the smartest guy, but not everybody has the resources of Viacom were IBM or any of these other big brands. And w- we're talking about actually vet these influencers. I mean, you need to do a lot of leg work, and you've got me to do a lot of research on these individuals before you can make a decision. And yeah, kudos do you guys for doing it. But the average marketer at a smaller mid tears brand looking for some influence marketing
can easily get dupe. And when I'm wondering is. Is this entire situation becoming so untenable that as a marketing consultant here on the side, I would have to go to my client and say. Frankly, I don't think you should be doing influence or marketing influence or marketing could be just a waste of your time and money unless you have the abilities in the pockets in the the the personnel in which the vet these individuals
before you run this campaign, what? Well, let's let's if you're going to talk to a mid tier or low cheer marketer, then you should. They should at least have an understanding of why they want to use it influence, or are they looking to engage with. Where whether or not that person is going to stand behind, you know the product at the quote unquote selling, and that you feel comfortable with their with their up there, they're offering
that they're giving you. And I think all of that is I don't care how small or big you are. If you're not prepared to do at least a little bit of like work, then that's on you. I don't want to make my my influence our program in Iran, and I run it in 25 countries. That's manually that is not I do not have an outside firm and Watson is not just to be like [laughter] like, I don't do that. Like this is a manual kind to the point just made. I have to do the
legwork to know like, does this person alive with the brand? It is. It's exhausting it. But I do think that there if I get the right person, there is value in it. But I I- if you're if you're small up your bag, you have to do your homework in. Thanks to you know the algorithms that Google you can just about socially stopped just about anybody. So you can see if the person you know is the legitimate personnel. Yeah, man, you want to look for. I would imagine you look for things like all, where else are they quoted?
Are are are are they actually being quoted or featured anywhere else that that suggests that they are actually being of influence? You know, how long have they been around? You know the just real basic stuff. Sometimes kicking very quickly begin to help you figure out pretenders regardless of whether they've got, you know, a hundred thousand fans or or or whatever. When I think I think again, the market is need to recognize that you are in essence handing the brand equity keys over to somebody and in in in you need to protect or or
managed their risk of that. In in those who don't, who who take the propaganda are, you know, are going to get what they deserve. Quite frankly, absolutely. If you're not going to put the legwork in even even a small amount than you get what you deserve. And the bottom line is that doesn't matter the size of your company. It matters, you know, ultimately, are you willing to put the work in? Do you do you want you know, as the point was made you or your handing over the keys to your brand to
somebody else you'd better well, for sure, no. That that person is doing the is capable of doing the job that you want to do it, or there's nobody to blame. But yourself. Or are we going to move on? And next topic with the completion of the eighteen t acquisition of Time Warner comes some analysis on what value this creates. And a lot of people who have been speculating on what's going to be the first effort on the part of town eighteen to you in terms of their Time Warner acquisition. All the
assets they have, how they're going to play it. And a sleeping opportunity that hasn't gotten the attention of many. The many fewer deserves is the combination of content with the coming five g roll out on mobile network specifically the five g network. Of eighteen. So Julian we have we underestimated the importance of five, gee, I mean, how will this impact media and advertising having this supposedly
super fast network via a mobile device? I mean, I don't know about we I know I have not specifically, but I don't know if the marketplace has made it up with Dutch Judith. That's kind of what we mean by we a 100% five g is very much a game changer in terms of what everybody will have the capabilities to do at what it's going to lead to some degree. We haven't scratched the surface of what
capabilities can be unlocked when we speed up our opportunities to kind of have the internet work in a manner that allows for pages to load with no latency at lightning fast speeds. And where wh- what that's going to lead you in terms of the opportunity to have consumers not only engage with advertising and brands and content at video and everything else. But the way that brands themselves will be able to leverage. A number of variable things
yours, the article kind of said the internet of things, virtual reality, augmented reality, and all these other factors. Five g enables all of that and the race to five, gee, between eighteen t- for rise in a combined T-ball sprint at some point involving Google and Facebook at Amazon. And everybody else is really going to be the key to wear and how consumers are are going to be accessible at able to kind of have access to.
Just unimaginable amount of content and variable opportunities that that five g's going to naval. So to the degree that the marketplace and hasn't been. You know, spoken to enough about what five g will mean and the brands such as a T and T and and really will spend a boatload of Mark money marketing the function that five g's going to allow for consumers to have access to.
You know, I'm interested about this story. I was just going to ask you in a quick question cousin. He's done more work on this than probably any of the rest of us. So it sort of has seemed to me like three g and four g were just about being able to do some things that people already redoing better. Five g almost feels like it's like you said, a game changer. It's it's going to spur experimentation and encountered new technologies. That detect that five g is going to spark rather than the other way
around it. But I think that's very, very true. You know, we all read the article right there was a mention of virtual reality in the waste use virtual reality. Well, it's funny cause I was having a conversation with my mother. Who certainly not tech savvy earlier this this afternoon and trying to explain to her a scenario where you will be able to virtually you know, she was talking and lamenting about the the the travel agency industry and how being a travel agent is
now kind of impossible. Well, if if five g might enable you to put on virtual reality headset, have a travel agent put on her virtual reality, upset in for you to have a virtual experience of going into their office in still speaking with a travel expert and never leaving your home. And that's what five g will enable the opportunity to because you will enable that. That technology to work as it's meant to work. Much more so than what fortune is allowing it to do
from the ba- more to the point, more to the point of what's going on with the Time Warner merger Time Warner acquisition by eighteen tea. It's purely about content at the at the very onset. I mean, the reason that. In a five g is such a game changer is I I've been floating this idea on the show for the past few weeks, and I'd love to get your opinion on this Julien. There's this there's this kind of softening on over the top. Well, cable solutions are starting to
rise up, and I'm really a big believer that that's the ultimate play by eighteen t- the you know, with direct T v.. Apple occasion, they're meeting a consumer desire, which is not that I want to pay everything all a cart, but that I won all my content with me wherever I go. And because that is the actual mean this being expressed by consumers. This gives them the best position to deliver that kind of
service. To the customers, I mean, it gives them the opportunity to. Give them content as at bargain prices, you know, it's just like some kind of. Package deal that gives you everything that you need on your mobile device on your computer, on your home T v. wherever you are, you have access. To the same content you have in your living room, I mean, so. I I don't disagree, I I think you're you're right it in a sense.
I think it it. It also might be a little bit more complex than that. There's going to be multiple five g offerings right in the marketplace. It's not just going to be the tacos. There will be other companies. That fight, you will allow to get into delivery of internet gain, and because of that content is a clear differentiator of why you might get access via me versus somebody else. And I think that's part of the play as well. If I have
all the access, I have access HBO. I have access to t. B s. and a whole CNN and a whole host of other content in the marketplace. By the way, getting five g service for me will give you access to that maybe for free or for a discount or whatever it is. But the bottom line is that as much as everything you said is very, very true. Cut, you'll have your content everywhere you go when every device you can go. And by the way now you can have with five g more
devices in your home hooked up or more internet of things, experience at everything else. But I think the content play and the purchase, and again, I'm try- I want to be I want to be. Somewhat. You're careful of how I say this. I think part of the reason why you're going to see a whole bunch of consolidation in the marketplace is because you need to have some kind of utility because five g alone is not going to be enough. If there's going to be 10 people offering five g via wifi opportunity because you
don't have to have it delivered via cables like you use do. Then you definitely have to have some kind of differentiator in the market. That's the reason why I'm going to get five g from eighteen versus getting five g from somebody else. It Julian can I just add this from the technology standpoint? Dabble just don't know much about just a little bit of dabble. Just attack ad like the whole print with with five g from a logistics timeout, content, you know?
Cell towers are supposed to go away and now with the with five, gee, you can have these really, really small transmitters and then everything's going to go to the cloud. Right late cloud base with laser precision riot aid laser precision, but not necessarily precision with ban wet. No. Right. So we thought that opens up, okay, you have all these millions and devices, and everybody's connected, and we'll do all this stuff, but everything is in the cloud and no one knows what that is and. Okay, so
we we we already have software defined networks already, but with five gee, we're going to have those aren't going to have a little little bit of a band with gravel. This young boost sounds exactly like the plot for battlestar galactica quite frankly that there are people in congress right now from a lot of the companies we're talking about lobbying very, very hard about opening up the spectrum. A little bit broader to allow for a better five g
experience. Yeah, I'm the same. The ban wet. Again, having cloud based on the old that my only contribution is from the technology standpoint, is getting out, you know, doing away with the towers and putting a crowd, but you still have a a mobile bandwidth just because you know you, you might have just a certain area mileage where you can where you will have the bandwidth. You might have something like the bus that goes by like black something because you didn't know there was an I beacon on your corner. And yet I mean, it could cause
like other issues not just from differentiation in contact, but can we really do this? Can you know better than everybody's working where you are, but I would imagine that that there's some thought about what we can do both from underground and then from an into space. Opportunity about how that works itself out. Where are we going to move onto? Are less topic of the evening running out of time here. So finally, a can play a can
panel last week, tackled whether global campaigns ignore the importance and impact of localized efforts. Mark, I found this article fascinating is the effort by brands to have a single global campaign actually working against the total opportunity available. Is it just more safe betting and trying to get cheaper and cheaper implementation of an of a global campaign as opposed to trying to localize and make it
make the campaign speech each local market? It's an interesting question. It's always interesting for me to find anything that interesting coming out of the can. To be honest with you, but same here, I'm so glad I'm so proud of myself for only having one can topic on this entire show [laughter]. So I had the fortune of working at a global ad agency and
working with global clients like at like apple and or be enough Fairmont hotels in in the light. And in in my experience, there are two reasons that you do a global campaign. You can save money and you have control. Those are the two main reasons that you do it. I have yet to see a market or a global market air Do research in each of the geographies where they intend to do advertising in that campaign and come back with audience
information that confirms that the predominant loyal audience, if they want to build a relationship with has the similar traits in every single one of those geographies. And that's the rationale for why we want to have a single campaign. It's never audience center. It's always brand Centric, and it is to save money, or it is to have control over things. One of the interesting experience so so I don't think that you get a lot. You know, you get those things, but you don't necessarily get a veteran engagement
as a result. I think maybe 20 years ago when the world wasn't as global in people wanted to feel as if they were connected to people in other parts of the world than coke having a single camp in a single campaign where single approach around the world was a way of connecting the world a little bit. But that's not the case anymore. The internet is certainly changed all that. I also work with plants manufacture in Germany in they had taken the approach for years of using the global agency
in they came to the conclusion that it was not right for businesses. For all their business units around the world. So they took the exact opposite approach, which was to not only decentralized all of their marketing and advertising activities, but intent intentionally hire a smaller independent agency in each of the geographies where they did business in. It was in part, because if if you don't do that, you are taking the legs out of the whoever is responsible for
marketing and business in a geography. To deliver against the results, if their hands are tied to the fact that they have to support whatever global campaign is going on. So you, you lose the ability to push accountability to the people who were doing business on your behalf of the global brand in that particular geography. And things that strikes me as I'm listening to you. It sounds like there's a basic misunderstanding between what a campaign is and what a global ad is. You know cause you
create if you create a global campaign, campaign should be able to have enough room within it to get localized or specialized for different products. Indifferent marketplaces yet still maintain the same core values in the same core identity that the rest of the ads of. And that's a campaign as opposed to just running one global ad or a series of ads that communicate practically nothing to a large portion of your
audience. I agree with you, but that campaign in so you separate the two. When you look at a campaign, it's based on an idea that is typically expressed in a set of words. I know there was part of this conversation was the idea of of how Levi's did it successfully by building a campaign that was wordless. In was imagery driven. And as long as those images evoked the same kind of words that resonate in each one of those geographies, I think that's fine. But I'll a bitch bitchy dollars
to donuts that that Levi's campaign wasn't developed because they did research in all the geographies in came to the conclusion that their audiences. Had similar feelings in an end beliefs about that bread in that was going to drive a similar kind of engagement by taking that approach. They say, I've never experienced that in all all the years that I worked with global brands where they've used an audience Centric approach to make the case for why they need to build a global campaign, whether it's global ads or whether it's at a campaign
idea like McDonald's has done that were they they give license to each one of the countries to express it in a slightly different way. To me, the idea itself needs to resonate at the grassroots level if he can execute that idea in your own way, in your own language too, to right down to a Kenyan any level. Then you are losing the opportunity to be able to build better engagement with your audience is locally. While with that, it's time for the ad
fell five but before we get to that segment of the show, I do want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guests again and allow them the each Jewish shameless plug starting with brandy boat owner. You can find heard IBM.com. That's the mother ship. Tell us what's going on in your world. Brandy of anything you want to promote, promote artificial intelligence, or as I like to call odd meant intelligence. We as market areas and communications professionals need to look at a
I as our friend, not as our foes, though, please don't look at it. How is technology? All dementing human intelligence not replace. Well said I liked the augmented intelligence approach. Very, very nice. Next up, we have how Thomas you can find him@noble mouse dotcom. That's the home of the content agency where he works. Tell us how what's going on in your world, what would you like to promote? Well, I'm I'm tempted to just add live in
read for the smoke maple bourbon that have been drinking as we've been sitting here [laughter] an influence, sir [laughter]. I want to know the name yet. So so s- so yes of knob creek wants to send me some be happy to tell people that are they should it because it's delicious and you have [laughter]. I don't know right now. Let's see. There's a there's five of us. So. So it's a start right now. I just simply
plug noble mouse if if if anybody is out there and is looking for a small boutique agency, a lotta a lot of hand holding a lot of close contact Neda and needs the money to work with on a, oh, whatever marketing needs you have would be. We'd love to talk to you. Just check assad@noble mouse dotcom. Wonderful, wonderful. Now next up, we have more quite head. You can find him@an agency called Colt collective what you can find a cold ideas dotcom tell us what's going on in your world, Mark,
what would you like to promote? Well, by my count, we use the word engagement, a hundred, and 28 times on this pod kind must have been in very aging on this show. I'm just saying, and that was the perfect preface for me to say that I've hosting a weapon. Are this coming Thursday, the 28th of June at one P m. eastern time. It's free of charge. And if you're interested in listening in on how what we believe that engagement and how you
can actually measure it. We built old methodology research methodology over the last three years about how to actually measure in the engagement that your audiences have with you, in as importantly, learn how to use that information to build smarter in bitter relationships with them in the future. I would encourage you to go to that. You are all that Bob said cult ideas dotcom in click on the link bits there, and I would love any listeners have been cast to come in the apartments. Wonderful. Yeah, definitely. You should check
the e- everybody out there. You should definitely check out Mark shop. It's some really interesting thinking going on in the cold and last but not least Julian's over brand. You can find him@viacom dotcom little media company. Tell us what's going on in your world, Julian, what would you like to promote? Well, as always, I'd like to promote T v. please watch some, especially if you're Nielsen household [laughter]. Isn't that illegal for you to say that [laughter]?
Just putting it out there [laughter]. Now watch on your phones, please do that. Watch as much T v. watch content and specifically watch our content. MTV vh1 logo power about network T v. land sea empty. Comedy central Nickelodeon, everything that we put out we were putting out. Tons of great shows, a great content. The next mission
impossible movie coming out next month, which should be at looks pretty amazing. I highly recommend everybody go see it so that at the end of the day, I can feed my family [laughter] and we all do yellow sorts on the paramount network. Absolutely. Yes, check that out, that that's pretty good. Show kind of data is really, really good, really, really got. I'll be watching the meeting awards tonight. Yes, yes. Yes. Bt experience weekend this
weekend. It was amazing. Amazing. I would have to agree and wasn't there followed on Instagram with all my friends. Sprang awesome. From the other information about me or the show because this is my show nut Julian's [laughter] visit over little by little [laughter] visit Rabin does not come there. You can find a complete show archives you can find out how to consult with me and you can even find out how the advertise in the program. So check it all
out@the being cast dotcom and don't forget transcribe me dotcom slush being cast as your source for transcription services and they are our official partner. So now you can of course get transcription of every being cast episode. We usually posted about a week from the show posting dates. So check it out@transcribed me.com/being coast. And now it's time for the ad fell five or run down to the lowest moments in advertising marketing and public relations from the last week. First couple or pure
play PR disasters first tough, the White House counsel unwelcome, attention as Melanesia, tram. This one cracks me up money. A Trump was seen wearing a jacket on her visits border detention centers. That said, I really don't care. Do you. Julian, I don't even know where to begin with this one in its dislike. Did she know did she just be wishy just handed this jacket from someone looking to sabotage this whole mission?
My guess is somebody's PR staff was asleep that day [laughter] most of whom I can't believe this one go through. And then the second disaster of the week, Peter Fonda gut appear backlash for suggesting the President Trump out, put his sunburned in a cage full of panel files to know what his detention centers were like for kids. Hell. I'm just going. This is so off
[laughter]. I understand you're upset with the president. You're upset with his trip. Yeah, I'm convinced that he and Kathy Griffin or drinking buddies [laughter] mixed up the state of Oregon had their domain blacklisted as after fishing attack co-opted their Email servers, brandy. I'm just thinking, you know, you're really ought to make sure that you don't get hijacked when euro the state government. But I understand that everybody
everybody gets hacked, you gotta have a response, but the be hacked in them blacklisted from your domain seems crazy. In our human error is the cause of a lot of sometimes are, you know, it's our own internal. It could be as opposed to like a cybercriminal but it is I mean, like a double whammy that not only do you get a fishing attack, a you are breached, but then you get blacklisted and you are the state government, which is, you know, hey everybody, you
know you can. You can work with companies like IBM to ensure that you don't become IT deficient. Commercial good commercial in the very slick, very slick. I didn't see what didn't work. Well, mixed up Italian clothing retailer, Benetton had the misguided idea Mark to use an actual photo of refugees being rescued by an agency without the organization's permission. Now they're being sued by the organisation. It's
crazy [laughter] seems like one award for me to remember how long ago they had not done a campaign based on a misguided idea. In keeping with the brands. Gosh, a looser keeping keeping in the house or will it wasn't it. He what's in it Hugo Boss that did something similar dislike. I don't know 4 5 years ago where they used a natural disaster as at in tried to spin it on Twitter is so it was everybody clamoring for their new collection or something like
that. That's a good. That's what this reminded me out. It's like, wow, same industry does not learn at all. Desperate for attention, obviously. Apparently. And last, but not least, my favourite Advil reeks that I've come across Burger King, Russia, Burger King, Russia thought a great World Cup promotion were to give away $47000 and lifetime supply of Walker's to any woman who managed to get pregnant with a World Cup players child in order to
preserve the Russians soccer dominance of the future Jolyon. What the heck is total? Burger King rushland. God. Levy, Levy Levy just say as somebody with a Russian back row [laughter]. That's hilarious [laughter]. They should not have apologized should've just God with the idea that they would try to support Russia or something just apologizing makes it seems so much dumber
[laughter]. The one example an exception to the rule about doing a local campaign that yes [laughter] we'll have something to add to this list or just wanted to discuss it. Common online use the hash tag Advil five that's pound Advil and the number five. Well, that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this pod cast visitor website on the being cast dotcom and click on the subscribe link. If you're an I tunes listener, we've also provided a direct link to
the idea of music store or to search for the being cast in the pod cast directory, vitamins, and whichever pod goes directory you use when you subscribe, please leave, observe. You got a comment. However question we'd love to hear from you, just your emails, the being cast a female dotcom opening theme was performed by Joe saddle closing theme by sea jacks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob nor p- we'll be back again next week. Hope you'll join us then.