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BeanCast 507 Transcript

BeanCast 507: Introducing Armpit Ads

Date: 08-Aug-2018

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Band with provided by recursive squirrel, interactive transcription services provided by transcribe dotcom visit them on the web@transcribe me dotcom sluggish being cast for up to twenty-five percent off. That's me dotcom episode 500 7 introducing armpit ads.


August 6 2000 key it's time for this week's edition of the beach cast a weekly discussion about the news that issues facing marketers today. Bob north. Thanks for joining us.


What's the difference between June Zia millenniums quite a bit actually, so much so that many marketers may be missing tremendous opportunities during unique desires, the motivations of each audience. How do we address that? Tonight will discuss also turning ads in the circus opportunities, avoiding the stereotypes about aging. While you're next camping need more physical items. Plus this


week's fell five. But the lineup lets me two nights Powell. Thanks for joining us for this week's been cast. I'm Bob north and with me on the panel for this evening, we start with the co founder and C e. O of endorser in influence or done a research company spotted miss Janet, comma knows Janet. I get your less name, right? I'm so excited [laughter]. Thanks for having me


bother appreciate it. Glad that you could join us now next up, she's the founder and president of marketing services company. The antipathy in MS Michelle excel, Michelle, welcome back. Half profits too. Good to be back. And finally, we welcome to the program, the co founder and partner of experience marketing agency campfire mister Mike Manila. Mike. Hi, how are ya? Hello, I'm great. Thanks for having me back on Bob. My pleasure is always. Well, we're going to jump right into


the topics first up for older marketers, not to name names here, those among us who are older, me being one of them. There's a bit of a tendency to lump younger people together into one big millennial Malays but jen's e- the younger side of the market who came of age and a post 9 11 world shows Mark difference for millennial. Sometimes surprisingly markedly different attitudes and everything from the way that they deal with things to media choices


to the kind of programming in social media is that they like to work with, sir. Mike, obviously, we need to address these concerns when marketing directly to this audience, but also how we best include them in our wider marketing efforts. Hound is knowing the differences about jen's e- affect the wider marketing efforts that we're putting into play. Well, first that I think we have to acknowledge it this study, this particular study was pretty conflicted, right? It's a social


video, come things with this show all studies or taken with a great big grain of salt [laughter]. I thought I thought the most interesting aspect of the study was that according to them about personal, I am not a big fan of these kind of generational stereotypes at all. But I thought the most interesting aspect of it was that they have even lower tolerance for interrupted ads than millennial. And I don't think that bodes well for the platforms or for marketers who are over


reliant on interrupted media. They're mixed. I think we're going to have to look at other ways to get their attention. I other than interrupting. I think I do do yes. Do we really think that interrupt divides need to go way for this all this younger audience, or do we believe that it's just the typical survey type data that comes back? People say, no, I hate adds. I hate ads and especially the younger


generation, they're going to say, yeah, we, we don't want to be interrupted. But you know, in the market place in the actual use cases, they actually stop and listen to things that are interesting to them. They re adds. That are interesting to them in it seems like rice, that's not a true true finding. We'll look it, you're absolutely right. They read things that are interesting to them, and I think that's you know, when you look at the study, one of the things that emerged from the study is that YouTube is the big winner, right? And and the


younger generation is embracing YouTube even more. And I think that's because not just because kids are getting smartphones earlier, but YouTube is so many different things to so many different people, and you look at the way they're what they are consuming on YouTube. It's it's a music discovery engine. They watch blogs and videos from their favorite celebrities. They share means they go to YouTube first. Whenever they want to figure out how to do something, they look for tutorials and the depth and breadth of


content there. Let some really go deep in their Nishi interests. And I think, you know, I have a thirteen year old and a fifteen year old, and they both spend a lotta time on YouTube, but there's almost zero crossover and what they watch their, which is completely different than net flicks or television, or almost any other channel where there's a lot of crossover. And so demographics are too deductive to understand you too. And I think that anybody putting content out there and thinking that they're going to attract gen


z with some kind of magical content that's going to grab all of them is they're going to fail. You have to follow interest communities. In a place like YouTube because it is so many different things to different people. And I think. That's not a coincidence. That's how net flicks organizers its users to market their shows as well. So we have to step away from these generational divides and really focus on interests that people are are are exposing to us as marketers when


they're when they're consuming content on YouTube, Janet in on this conversation, because this is right up your Ali Amin doing with the the influence or in the endorser crowd in doing with celebrities and their different social media channels. So. What exactly do you think is going on here? Do you think the YouTube is a panacea for reaching this younger audience or is it like Mark? The mic said, you know, we have this situation where you need to be more focused on an interest group. And how much does


generational divide play a role in how we reach out to different audiences on the platform? Yeah, I think it's fascinating to me it and with them, even the most interesting part of the study was that to me was that 95% of Japan's ears. Sad that they use YouTube on are frequent basis and 50% report that they couldn't live without it. And even more males than females said that they couldn't live without the platform. But you tip as the obviously very popular for a long period of time. I feel like there's a lot more conversation


about gen zeros using you team for influence our purposes. We also see a lot of our clients. Leveraging YouTube for regular celebrity, like traditional celebrity content. And I think I think the other interesting thing to keep in mind with. With YouTube in particular, is that where we are seeing a lot of brands develop very inclusive type content specifically for YouTube to address the gen e- population because


gen z has a much lower tolerance overall for disrespect for her bullying, then millennial is dead. So brands are using YouTube as a as a medium for more kind of inclusive content. I find it interesting that so many millennial Andrews, when it came to wish platform, they like the best on YouTube. I just. It boggles my mind a little bit, Michelle, when you think about it, YouTube is probably one of the most heavily add interrupted platforms out there. I mean,


you've got every single video of note having a pre roller amid role coming into play. And yet they prefer this platform every other playoff over every other platform. I mean, what what's going on there? Do you have any suppositions? Yeah, I think we're used to it. I think that everybody is used to it on on YouTube. I think that when Facebook brought it out in video ads, everybody's taught started to their heads up and say what the heck is going on. And we don't like that at


all because we weren't used to it. I think on YouTube, you know, if we if we want to watch something content, create our publisher that we like and we followed, then we're fine watching it added in front of it and not all of the ISAF ads in front of them. The ads are sort of a byproduct to the platform, and weirdly, I can teach you pretty light. I probably now to about 50% of my content watching on YouTube. And the rest would be a little bit on Facebook in the restaurant net flicks and hula. And


I to be honest, I don't really mind it at all and has been a real change. I think in the last year or two specially recently where a lot of the ads I'm actually stopping watching. An but now has a lot to do probably with the content on watching a lot of them are aimed at me, but I must say Michelle, you fall squarely in the millennial realm of things, right? I mean, squarely in them [laughter] [laughter]


what we used to call gen y, the land just in the label gas, the memorial. So I mean it's you I can understand a millennial actually embracing or at least tolerating ads at a much higher level. Then I expect it from jen's e- person. And yet I'll jinns e- seems to be jen's e- seems to grab a gravity toward the u2 blood form over every other social platform according to the study. That that I find really fascinating because on


the 1 hand, you have what Mike saying, the djinns e- does not tolerate ads, and that's what the study says. They're not tolerating linear ads. And yet the platform that they choose to work on the most is the heavily linear interrupt of format platform. I am I going to go ahead. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I think they understand it. So when I was working a lot with influences a couple of years ago and one of the things you've got 20 year olds building


followings one or two million people, and they get the actual people making the content that Jesse as understand it. They understand if they're making it that they can use it to monetize their platform. I understand if they consuming it, that if they want to see that their favorite people and neck favorite content, they have to watch an add to get through it. So I think that this they've got a high tolerance for it in the right place like in in a platform like each you did. They came into understanding. I think that they understand it may forgive


it. They don't like it wise, and they really don't like it if you're it's annoying ads all non targeted ads or just irrelevant ads or just saying added again. And again and again, we will hate that. But I think that they have a tolerance for because they understand that the business aspect of it. That's one thing I noticed. I I think I'd I'd love to see a study that just observed jen's e- behavior watching you too, because I don't have any data. And I have a


focus group of two kids, but both of them when they whether they're watching on Bogle or on a tablet, they have something else in their hands going on. And while they're surfing around flipping through videos. As soon as an ad comes in, they usually pick up that other thing and start fidgeting around with it, ignoring the at the ad until you know if it's if it's a if it's one they can't skip. So I'm not sure how many of them are sitting there and actually


consuming the ad verses. They've they're multitasking through everything, and they just flip over to another tab. Put I will count. I would counter that. That's the way it's always been. I mean, when we watch television, you you know this Mike, in the battle days before the internet, you watch a television program in the soon as the commercial came on, that's when you went to the bathroom or go into the kitchen to go grab a sandwich. I mean, it's not any different. It's just that the behavior. Let me in the behavior is the same. The activities of changed.


Yeah, I think I think the targeting is just so accurate though on YouTube that that you know, that Japan's ears are more willing to engage with the platform because you know the ads that are being served to them irrelevant. So I think I think that's the big difference with YouTube. Get like I've noticed it. I have noticed in the last year that I am sitting through and watching the lads. And he I also love ads some you know my my long running long room


it running statement about any millennial is that everybody's one minivan away from being like everybody else who came before them. So I mean, you know, people get older, their behaviors change changing as the millennial audience ages and gets to the point where the. You know in the mid thirties to late thirties, they're going to start slowing down and paying attention to advertisements. I mean, that's always been the case. It's it doesn't seem like the behavior is all that different from previous


generations. It's just that the activities of change and were so focused on. The activities themselves without really focusing on the fact that behavioral behaviorally, were not all that different generation to generation. I think one of the most interesting questions though that I have and I'm going to go to John on this one. I mean. You know, we build a lot of these, these millennial targeting jonesy targeting bullets. Let's see. The millennial targeting alone has been built on the premise of digital first


and social consciousness and new basically doing brand advertising that socially good for the community and really focusing on the desire to make the world a better place. Is that still true with jonesy? Is that something that we can still leverage as the audience different enough so that we need to leverage different hooks? So I was, you know, at Cannes this year it was a resounding theme from Sierras


Unilever, the of Google that social consciousness is a core tenant of their strategy to attract their youngest consumers and actually their youngest employees as well. So. So I heard that the same of Google loreen talk about how they they use and social consciousness in the hiring process to attract the best youngest talent their company to sell. I think. I think these are very, very core. And social consciousness is


very quiet to every every major brand who's trying to attract the attention. Of course, just because its core doesn't make it the right choice for the this upcoming generation. And that's that's that's what the heart of my question. I mean, yeah. So p and g or. Unilever, whoever is out there using social consciousness as a means of attracting new employees in attracting people to their brand. It doesn't mean that it's going to be as effective over the next decade. As this younger generation moves in


two spending more money with further products. And I think, you know, I think all of these brands are doing a ton of market research right now on the value that social consciousness brings to the youngest consumer is out their agenda right now. And I think the numbers are showing that it's important to that part of the population. Mike, any less thoughts on that? I mean, it's a slight from a standpoint of, you know, really focused on digital first really focus on


social consciousness. Does that still hold wait for this younger generation or is that something that you would question in actually asked for more research before you committed dollars in those areas? I definitely do not question social consciousness. I see it in in and the kids today. I would say probably digital first is now largely mobile first. And that's probably the biggest shift. Yeah, I agreed agreed.


I mean, it's just like I when I was writing the notes, I kept thinking maybe I should put mobile first foot, you know, let's face it were splitting hairs here. I mean, it's this like digital first is more about digitally connecting the consumer to your brand via lots of platforms. And I think that's where we need to be focused on, right? I mean, it's just like we can't be focused entirely on mobile because everybody's migrating from platform, the platform, just like you, your explained how your kids are doing it right. Yes, I think


you're right. It's just that I think the surfing behaviors are very different on mobile, and I think the study that we're talking about shows that people are mobile open up apps before they open up the browser. A significant difference. Agreed. I mean, as you know, I guess some more from the standpoint of white people may be starting with mobile, but they're going from platform to platform and it's more important to connect the the platform experience than it is to be just focused on being a


mobile delivery system. But again, I'm splitting hairs and I think we need to believe that point much more. Let's move on Facebook this week, announced booth playable and charitable add units available in their platform. And while neither is necessarily a new ad format, in fact, both have been around for a while. The news does highlight, but in the stagnant world of digital display ads, creating immediate interactions during the impression is a growing bus practice. So Michelle, how does


this news impact the typical brand strategy for digital advertising mobile advertising? What have you. This is yeah, it's been a lot of time thinking about this. But I don't think that interactions in ad is anything you know as you as you have said, like we've been doing this for for while angry decade, doing it this with rich media, the forth social media days with video units gala that was once allowed for really interactive video. I'm


back in the day again, enact ads, Facebook apps. Even these will really highly interactive engaging add units that encouraged people to interact before they presumably clicked through, went somewhere else. I think that Facebook and was seen on Instagram is certainly unsapped chat. I think that we're we're seeing a lot more interaction being built into ads within social platforms. And I definitely think that


this is an aggressively growing area. I have a lot of opinions about this. I think that highly interactive ads. Our great to some things. So you know, I think that are great for. Economists, I like carousel units and things like I'm able to actually browse round, see different products and things. Before I click. I love a


our studio on Facebook as close instrument and chat have their infections. But I'm I'm really loving studio. I spend a lot of my day making a are things, so we'll try to sell them so under the highest in that respect. But I love these engaging types of ads for certain products. So set in says, but I do question whether interactive adds a little bit of a red herring because you know. I I do wonder if


we're focusing too much some brands focusing too much on creating two matching practically, almost like a full on micro site. You know within an ad and should we really be focusing on getting people through to DAL site? These interactive adds a great for transaction, all sorts of things that are they are they really good ship building and comes down to that. The campaign here is something to consider though, and this is what is kind of attracted me to this story is that we


have been focused on trying to get them to our site. And getting people to the site is only half the battle, getting them the purchase, getting the interact with us, or actually have a conversation with a sales rep or a or something is a much further up the funnel activity than just getting them to the site. And I kinda liked the idea of turning my advertisement. Into something that generates a real interaction with something that's actively


selling on my behalf, as opposed to going to the website were once again cast adrift. Usually not even on the product of a monopoly, clicking on the fine. But it depends on what it is that you're using the act four. So like I said, for e commerce for finding out about a new product or service, these sorts of things. I think that these heavily interactive adds a fantastic, but like the being in the creative industry in having being on the


receiving end of it. Kate at media plant, it's really annoying creatively if you come up with incredible brand campaign and then you get given the media plan and forced to squish that idea into a Facebook canvas at see campaigns dike constantly because been dictated to by the media plant. So I think in order to make the best use of these interactive units, we really have to have a straw hat looked at why we using them and which campaigns, cracks and status.


Are are better suited to them, but it's not a one size fits all solution for all campaigns. You're trying to do that. I think that it's great. They're becoming more interactive, but I want to make sure that it's not brands on omits really media companies, to be honest media companies and publishes were pushing these units, right? Because I make more money than I want to make sure that that we're not getting caught up as creative agencies in his brands and just gone too bright, shiny, new object when it may not


be the best unit for the campaign that we're trying to. You're basically saying is that if you're doing an advertisement, you need to have a clear objective in a clear reason for why you're doing that advertisement or why are you using that functionality? And I, I would totally agree with you on that point. I think that too many people go for the nice bright, shiny new object, and try to put it in play without really understanding what the objectives are that are driving those decisions. Mike given


that even though you know you need to have a clear objective before you put an ad unit in play, is there a scenario where things like the charitable ad is something that you really want to put in play all the time? Because even if you don't expect to be driving hundreds of millions of dollars of sales through that advertising campaign, at least you're putting a connection point where your customer can interact with either you or an automated bought that's going to provide them with service. Well, I


I absolutely agree with Michelle, that you really have to understand these units and what they're good for. I do think they represent a change, and I do think the danger is that particular creative agencies will just simply try to JAMA campaign idea into a format that doesn't work. And and they'll do it just because the ads are delivering based on novelty. And once that novelty wears off, the effectiveness will wear off to unless we've actually


figured out how to do it right. And that's going to take some experimentation to figure out off. Right off the top e commerce makes a lotta sense, but I do think there's an opportunity for real meaningful interaction here, and I think it's something that digital advertising has been missing ever since the move to social platforms, which is kind of relegated everything digital to display for the most part or video.


I think when we interact with our phone, we expect it to to react to our input, and now our ads can do that once again, which is something that we had prior. So we do have to develop better best practices for the for how we make these ads and what we do with them. But you know, so I think I think we're going to see a big jump into them. I think that the shiny new object syndrome will take place, and then the effectiveness will start to die down. And I think the smart brands are going to figure out


exactly what they're good for. And I have something to add here, I think. You know, I think playable and chat awhile ads. They seem like very, very strong formats for middle and lower funnel content. But I would be and I think this is along the same lines of what Michelle was saying. I am a little bit nervous about using these ad formats for upper final awareness content. It's like it's analogous to to running an awareness campaign, but then measuring it on a last click attribution basis. It's like you can't be the first


touch with the consumer and expect them to engage with you on such a deep level. I think it sounds like a great a format from for middle and lower funnel, but not necessarily for upper funnel awareness base ads in my leg. To tell you, I think understanding that it's not just like the creative format and corrupt slowly rising. When is the best. When is the best time to be using it? Yeah, I think that I think they really useful as well. Which charitable ads? I mean, I a lot of


it's what's happened, things, but you see, right? So you see a product ad for people to Nora. Recently my husband snows like, oh my God, you would [laughter]. So these little more devices which she know inflates you pillow. Andy slight said it's. Quite neat. Jury's out on whether it works or not. I might say yes, it's kind of working, but I read probably two hours with comments on their assets. So I went through in an ad, kept popping up on Facebook, upping up an instrument. I was reading the comments and reading the ad


said, have signed and you see some brands it better than others where the brand community managers back in their responding to everything. And you also see that they get asked 20 times the exact same question. So I think that the channel ads could really help streamline dare I read in response teams and things like that, but again, it's it's not brand building, it's it's far more transactional. Which of the many out of illusions that you see Michelle, the ones that


are out there in the in the marketplace which you're holding the most long term promise for use or anything that kind of rises to the top and says, yes, this is where inter and ads really needs to focus on and move forward. I think the charitable ones I think this is great benefit damp that his being cast their opinion, any person who lost chap outs [laughter]. That's one thing done. Well, they save time and they can just make things so much


easier, so much more streamlined. So I definitely won't. Lads is a huge opportunity there on the game ads. You know the one that you had to settle the cat and perhaps it is, you know that the pliable ads these these ads that are specifically for game developers. So people making your angry beds and all sorts of games that allows you to play a little bit of obsessed. I think that's great. I think I think they're really, really useful. And then a are enabled ads. I just I just love. I'm a huge


fan. We do a lot of production. It's an area industry that I can back. I really do like that. And I think a lot of cases they really useful from trying on may count too. Just having fun to enabling more social content creation like mortgagee say. I'm really digging them. I'm I'm excited to see where I are. It's you know what? I kinda figured that you would go there. You know mainly because you're so forward thinking and you're always dealing with the


latest technology. But I mean, frankly. I mean, Mike, you've probably seen them because everybody wants to pitch them to you. But John, have you ever seen in a are better at I mean I feel like I'm the blue. I've not I've not I feel like the black sheep here. You know, it's like I've ever seen one in the wild. I've never even seen one in a test case in its. I don't even know how to feel about them. I mean, Mike, what? What's your what's your thoughts? I mean, have you have you seen them of you played with them or they


worth the time? Well, I think I think we're still figuring out what they are is going to be best at. I mean, look, I I work largely in the entertainment business and so I've seen an awful lot of them pretty much every movie poster these days now is a are enabled. You walk into a story. You see a stand up for a movie or for a home video release which wonder how long those are going to be around still. But when you see them there a are enabled.


And and certainly the the the group that I work with a campfire is doing a lot of a are as well. But. Honestly, very little of it actually excites me in execution. I feel like a are is further along than VCR but both feel like. Technologies where the promise and the possibility is much more exciting than the reality today. [laughter]. I would say it all comes down to context, so I think that just


doing a our ads for the sake of doing them is yet not not particularly helpful, but thankfully, I work with some amazing AOL production companies. You know a lot of what we can this very considerate, and I think I've seen and and built being part of building some some amazing executions. And I just think that there's a lot of potential for future. I think that I can actually bring utility into ads as well, which I think is something that. You know, we haven't done a lot of exploration with yet. I think a lot of France has done well


gimmick and cool France had success because they have a strong brand of celebrity and has the most of most of the really cool uses of augmented reality that I've seen have been in real world settings where you have like a like Microsoft a poster out in the wild u- you you click on the crow q r code, or whatever you activated, and you get the experience, or you have an app. The present a are portions of the experience


you can try on clothes, but. You know, when it comes to the banner ad, a are usages. I just feel like that's just the incredible interruption for my my flow, a more really upset about being advertised on a on a mobile device. No, you're going to add a are layering into it, and it seems almost ludicrous for me. I mean, I'm not really sure where the not that makes sense. I think we I think we've got to intercept you with a with a relevant ad and then see how


I think you have to experience a lot in the wild. I think this is I think this is an example of how context. And I think again, possibility makes more sense, right? If I'm sitting at home and I'm searching for a new couch on my mobile device. Which I was actually just doing before I opt onto this sub- pod cast recording. That lets me actually turn around and see that couch in


my living room. I might actually really enjoy that, and it might actually push me to go into the store or two. Order it online, so I contact is going to matter. The targeting is gonna matter, and execution is going to matter, and I think were were pushing towards it, and I can see the possibility. I just haven't seen it. All come together yet, I said, I think my one time searching for dumping during Amazon right before the Amazon prime day, they were doing that big thing. The big push


to use the VCR lens. That they built into the rap and I tried it out and was trying to get a specific couch into my into my apartment, and I couldn't find the couch when I went through. So I gave up without ever doing in a, you know, her experience. So I mean, it seems like it's like you say, my the the desire for it to be cool is greater than the actual experience of actually seeing it in the action. So I think that has a while to go before it gets too. Being something that will impress me, but that's


beside the point, but we will send you some links. I am deaf [laughter]. Well, moving on if there's one thing of learned about the business is that we love our stereotypes, but the sturdy types about aging or putting us at odds with one of the most lucrative in growing populations out there right now, sir, Janet, what's your perspective on the way brands present older people in their ads and and how can we do better? Your thoughts? Yeah,


definitely. So there have been a lot of articles published in the last couple of years and add weak and at age. About the fact that ad agencies in particular are not employing older people like they you still mostly because it's a cost issue cell folks in their in their forties fifties. And sixties are a lot more expensive to higher than advertising folks in their twenties and thirties. And so I think that's the root of the issue here is that the people actually creating the ads in the first place. Both at the


bran and at the agency are not older and. Instead, they're not they're not casting older folks in these ads, and that's why I think that's the big reason why this older generation has just underrepresented. It was. It was actually funny because the other day I was I was listening to a segment on T v. about Tom Cruise. Doing all of his stunts in this in the newest mission impossible movie until I looked up,


I went online to look up how old he was. And then right below I think he told me he was 55 or 56 years old and write allowed letter that it said it told me the ages of Brad Pitt and George Clooney and Johnny Depp and are all in their mid fifties now [laughter] so a lot of consumers and their mid fifties feel very young because like these Hollywood leading stars are, are are in their mid fifties? And yet, so few brands are actually developing advertising specifically


for this age group L'Oreal is probably the best example of a brand that's really embraced. As the older generation, but then they had an issue because they cast Helen Mirren and a bunch of ads. 10 years ago, and then she spoke out negatively about the brand which had kind of disastrous effect. And that's really the only brand consistently tried to cast older. Older folks and older celebrities in particular in their ads. So if I were. Starting an ad agency to


die. I actually think it would be a fantastic idea to hire a bunch of people in their fifties and sixties and develop at Laguna solely focused on creating advertising. The targeting that segment of the population because no one's really doing it right now that they're not doing it. I don't think that they're doing you're right. I mean, when when they do put older people into advertisements, it's usually as the kindly old grandmother grandfather without really understanding that some of these 70 and 80 year old people or


Instagram errors, you know their bloggers there've, they're bloggers, no. And there are brand like Adidas and Gillette I know have produced ads in the last couple of years that. Focused on highlighting senior citizens and nursing home, so either like are there you know they're they're depicting elderly folks who are near death or they're not addressing that segment of the population at all. I don't know. I don't know if the other folks on the


broadcast and many other I have seen any compelling ads. Targeting this generation, but I really have not. I think I think what you raise a really good point though. I wrote some notes of him prior to this, and I was saying that it's not good enough to just be aware of this and stop making ads targeted at those folks that you really need to have them be part of the actual creative process as well. You know, it needs to be van stories and and their experiences. Of course, I didn't even click that. Of course, we just we don't see a lot of that.


The older generation inadequacies went when not hiring. And I think that that's it. It's incredibly good point. I mean, I I feel it that we don't hire or we if we do high young people, I don't think that we talk to them and asked about their experiences. But it's so exciting to the workforce very on edge and the college thing. But I think that with the older generation is the same. And so now that this is actually being spoken about, I think it's fantastic and is definitely be in some fashion and beauty brands have embraced it. I will talk. It did actually with that woman who sang


totally escapes me. So the fashion Easter who's in her nineties, she lives in New York. I have seen some of these campaigns and they really do stand out and it makes me feel good when I see advertising or brain to content editorial. That does show real people of an older generation because I want to see them depict picked it. I want to see my mum, my dad in this work. There are a big part of my life. And it's way way. Golly, I'm not in my forties yet, but I'm not too far off.


And I want to see all ages depicted in advertising, and I think that I want to hear this story is I think that a lot of the older generations didn't grow up in the same way. That we did the younger generations I now they do not use to voicing their experience. So I think that they need to take a little bit of a lesson from jazzy, and we need to get we need to give them the tools and confidence to be telling stories more. So I would like to see not just advertising by


traditional sense like 30 second spots. But I would like to see most stories from from the older generation, you both have brought up a really good point, but agencies are not hiring older people or the older people who were still involved with creative were management level and are not directly connected to the work anymore. And it's all well and good to say they just need to hire more older people. But Mike, you've worked in a big agency that's not going to happen. Is it a minute's this like,


that's just not on the menu. So how do we deal with this problem? Well, I do I agree, which added I bet that this problem, this little problem here is a symptom of ageism within the agencies. And I do think ages of is the next. Barrier to break in advertising, it's probably going to happen. But what I wrote in my notes lined exactly with what China said, which has a lot of older people are either being let go or


are leaving these large agencies because there are no longer inviting places. And these are the most skilled and the wisest people in the industry. And I think it's an enormous opportunity for the ones who are opening their own agencies. Yeah, I actually hired. I brought someone on board at spotted a couple of months ago, his 75 years old. He's our most. He's probably our most valuable employees because he's been working in the advertising space. For 40 something years and he knows


he knows when something is very special. He knows when people are. Are you know he he knows when something another competitor or another solution comes across his table. He noted that when it's when it's not a good solution, he can pick that out faster than anybody else at our company. He's particularly strong with messaging, just cause he's been around for so long, but he's expensive. But I think the ultimate issue here, it's not that that ageism exist so much. It's that it's a cost issue because you know he's one of the most


expensive people at our company agencies and deal with us back to the point I was making earlier, I think you're full before you go on to the point I you need to deal with the money issue because I think that in agencies, it's easy to say, well, the older people were expensive, but I know a lot of older people who are willing to take half their salary to get back to work in an agency. And not really been given the opportunity and see younger people who are coming in to jobs at half the salary. It's almost like.


I won't quote who it is, but someone was talking about, he was hiring, strategists me, said Bob, you would not believe it's scary. How much cheaper it is for me to hire someone full time than the bring in a freelancer now, because I'm getting people at half the salary. I used to have to pay. And it seems like the bar has been lowered so much that people can't make the living wage that they need to survive. More so than you know that the person is too expensive.


And I'm not saying that that's your case or anything. I'm saying this as is purely an world problem. I would off to add that. What I what I saw happen. From the inside is you get. A lot of young inexperienced people thrown together to tackle a problem without the experience. And they run around in circles, they make the agents, the ultimately look bad in front of a client. I think it's one of the reasons why the value of the agencies has diminished in front of clients, eyes because


they do look around and wonder where the adult aroma is. But but what I've seen as I've seen young people also run in circles and waste an enormous amount of time and energy, and and continually fail to really impress a client with work when there are no older people in the mix. So I think I think I understand that older people can be more expensive, but. You know, at some


point the the the the ballot shifts. And too many young inexperienced people are going to really mess things up in particular when you get into. You know brands throwing money in to say things like physical activations in events. You put a lot of inexperienced people on an event, and you're going to start to run some serious risks. But also, inexperienced people make a simple mistake that could have tens of thousands of dollars in repercussions to the agency as a result. And I've seen it.


So it's. It's a balance that has to be struck. You're totally right about that because there's this there's this misperception that only younger people know anything about the world of digital. And generally speaking, like younger people are more savvy when it comes to digital and social platforms. But you have to balance that cutting edge and Evita of younger employees with the more kind of consultative approach that an an older person


can can bring to the table. Yeah, but also agencies don't like hiring managers. They don't like hiring people who aren't also make us. And I think that that's a shift that needs to happen because it's not just that there's a bunch of young people running around, not knowing what they doing as a younger person and advertising I I was always manage at not really a mak-. I think that we need to whether it's older people will, whether it's however, at whatever age group it is, I think that we need to realize that we need managers at each level like we need somebody


there whose job is to oversee the process and the work, and to interrogate and to rehearse and to play devil's advocate. And I think that we need to keep people around who are experienced that stop expecting them tools, heavy, making their comps into in boards or the age old problem that creative directors on allowed to actually be creative directors, really need those people can manage. And I think that that's what we've gotten away from. And I think I think it was right in large part. It's because wages


hiring cheaper. Yeah, we're we're cutting mogyns. I think the other issue that agencies are experiencing right now that's reflected in the creative that's being developed as that agencies aren't hiring a whole lot of African American and Hispanic folks who are working on the creative and there aren't African American executives that most agency is, and therefore they're not casting African American talent who who feel like they. And and we actually we took a look at all the major


endorsement deals across like 10 different categories. A brands a couple of months ago, and we saw that only I think it was nine percent of the celebrities cast in these in these large scale campaigns and endorsement deals were half of African American or Hispanic descent. And an overall our data shows that about 22% of the most popular relevant celebrities globally. Right now, if you look at like the top 222% are African American and


Hispanic. And so it's the same issue at that. Agencies aren't employing folks that that look like the people they end up casting in their ads. Yeah. I think that they might do this. There it there are some things I think we can do. Before we start to address that bat, not before that, luckily should do before. But in the meantime, while we're trying to to catch up in the dress, that balance. Is at least in our research, at least an hour call research is


actually trying to find those people in trying to find those stories. And when we're looking for real customers to tell stories on, we're looking for real employees, which is both things that we're doing a lot and marketing telling real stories is that we seeking out those people with diverse stories as well. Because we we could be learning a loss along the way. And I think that. It's going to take a while for agencies, I think to address this balance. If if indeed they ever make a meaningful


step toward it, you're expecting a lot from an agency world, but I'm not gonna I'm not going to comment on the [laughter] I'm not expecting. Yeah, I got to move on to the final topic of the night. A very self serving peace. I read this week. Seems like the news was filled with self serving pieces, but hey, it's August in. That's what August brings us in the news. So self serving fees are road seemed to suggest that we could curb digital fatigue by using more physical products or in


conventional parlance promotional items. So. Does this love this article? I read this and I'm like, of course you're going to talk about promotional items being the the savior of all advertising. However, despite the obvious commercial for logo pens, there were many good points made in this article about physical items and how they work within the context of a larger campaign. So Mike does adding a physical piece to a wider story enhance recalling, create more


connection with that story in the end of your thoughts. Yeah, I think you know, I'm going to quote myself from I think my very first being casts appearance, many years ago said, the more lives become mediated by digital technology. The boy, we will value physical experiences, and I I believe that's true or now more than ever a campfire we're seeing a huge shift in our client briefs from digital activations and experiences to physical. Experiences, but I would. Definitely make the


case that promotional products are not a complete answer. I think that Brandon shot keys that are just give it away to other people who are going to be seen as useless garbage. I mean, I can't tell you how many battery charges I have been given branded battery charges, and I use them all the time. And if you put a gun to my head, I would not be able to tell you what brand is on my battery charger. But how that said that having said that under the u- u-. I remember when I was working with camphire way back years ago. We had


those little wooden boxes that had little wooden USB keys in them, and they were completely charming and memorable, and they enhance the experience. So you took like a very basic trotzky and you turned it into something that was so much more in so much more memorable in a conversation starter. Yes. And that's that's what I was going to say. It's like a meaningful physical experience will imprint on memory. And in those cases, right up a promotional products, something that you leave behind, which is


those were left after a meeting. A meeting that was designed basically to end with us handing them that but but but you know, when you receive a commercial product, that's part of an overall experience. I think that product could take on. That meeting. And so it's not necessarily a promotional products themselves that are going to move the needle, but it's how I think people come to acquire those promotional products. That creates value and meaning. So it comes back to experience, and I think we're seeing as we're seeing


budget shift to physical experiences. Promotional products can be an effective part of that. But ultimately, you're looking to create an emotional connection during those experiences. And the product has to represent that connection. So it's it's interesting timing we actually a couple of weeks ago we looked at and this is you know, from the B to be from a beat, a B angle. But we looked at all of the deals that we had closed in the last year and what the common thread was across them. When you were breaking into these brands. And we saw that


account based marketing materials was the one common grad across every one deal because it creates this kind of more intimate connection with the buyer. You. There have been a number of companies that have popped up in the last couple of years that are focused on a on her account base marketing. Alice is the name of one based in Boston. And so they basically they scraped the web. If if I had spotted were trying to break into a brand and there was a senior brand market who liked


the red socks? And you know and skiing, it would suggest gifts to me based on that person's interests. And and I have a lot of friends who use these types of solutions with with much success because it really cuts through the noise. You can't cut through the digital. And then you'll talking about selling business. Yeah. Yeah. To sound clients delicious. It's different, but it's it's still human psychology cause they get.


I notice that when I demos something. It is far greater chance of of a closing a deal. So I think that I don't necessarily see it as a as a as a physical leaf behind Pesci but I do feel the acting as Microsoft that. That emotional connection. So I if I can walk somebody through an experience for trying to sell something, identify the we made or even something by somebody else. That's just similar. People remain but ask is that I don't have any either if you've seen


it yet, but AmEx music hope it's still up right now they are. They have a per unless Justin Timberlake on their at right now, and he's a volumetric character. And even though we didn't build ask, you know what he might roster built that a great example of volumetric that he island in virtual reality. And people still come back to me months later when they're calling me too. Don't get me to scope things, do feasibility, because you showed us that that really stuck


on the same page were all saying that it's it's about a cadence of communication. You know it's it's like it's about creating a song instead of just a a drum beat of constantly being garage by ads. And I think that's the problem with the digital space in the overwhelming noise that's coming at us from the digital space is made it more important than ever to create some kind of kittens by in eruptive means or by service means or by experience means


outside the context of the same platform that were always hitting people on. So Facebook guys may be really, really effective, but you need to pay attention to the physical world is well in terms of getting together the right mix. But it's going to generate the right kind of response. Well, it's good conversation, but it's time for the Advil five before we get to that segment of the show though I do want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guess again and allow them the each to a shameless plug starting with Jenin


comatose. You can find her@spotted.u. S that is the home of spotted this great, great company than I'm going to allow her to tell you about. So what would you like to promote it? Thank you, Bob. So spotted helps brands make smarter, safer celebrity decisions. So rather than investing in a large scale celebrity partnership because you feel like the celebrity is the right choice for your brand or for your client. You spotted we trapped more than 100 data points on global talent


help you invest in the absolute best talent for your brand. And it's really an interesting, interesting service, so you definitely should check it out and Janet is wonderful. So you'll enjoy talking with her. Next next up, we have Michelle excel. You can find her the antipathy in.u. S this is the day for U s. addresses I of a U s. address to somewhere being cast at U us, but that's beside the point. Michelle, what would you like to promote? I think there's been a real shift in what I've


been doing that for the last six months. I represent production companies to do amazing things. So when you need something may come to me. But what I do more often than not now is actually educating a lot more agencies, indirect friends about and value of these different massive technologies. So I am always available at any point to give points of view on what is happening in the will via experiential marketing. And I give my time liberally and for free and as much as is needed because,


yeah, I want to educate and inspire because that leads to work in the end. Yeah, hit hit me up. I look across Latian seasonal vertical was an old tax, so kind of one stop shop. I've met Michelle and person several times over the past years. You're you're and a half and let me tell you every single time she's exploded, my brain with lots of cool meal ideas. So you definitely want to talk to her. And last, but not least Mike Manila, you can find him at campfire N y. is still the address


or if he changed it. That is the campfire dotcom works to campfire N y. C we are still New York City baith. Yeah, I really I wanna promote campfire I mean, we just came back from San Diego comicon where we did a huge activation for S USA networks for their upcoming many series based on the purge and things. The second year in a row we've gone with the really big activation and an- and had done extraordinarily well there. I'm really proud of of all the


work we're doing right now in particular. I think we're doing some of the best physical and digital experiential activation work out there. So if you look at a breakthrough and do something remarkable check this out. Three amazing geniuses working on your campaign. I can't think of a better way to work. You guys were amazing what you're what you're doing over there. So definitely check out campfire. And as for me for more information about me or the show visit, the being cast are calm there. You can find a complete shore drive. You can find out how to consult with me. You can even find out how to


advertise on the program. So check it all out@the being and don't forget. But if you want to get a transcription, you can get it because of transcribed me dotcom transcribed, cast as where you go to get your transcription services. They are doing a special deal for being cast listeners who definitely used this this euro code here, but they are giving us free transcription services on this site. So if you wanna get what this been said, just wait a week and


you can find it all searchable right on my website. So check it out. And now it's time for the Advil five or run down of the lowest moments in advertising marketing and public relations from the last week. And first up Facebooks new disclosure rules regarding political ads are now having legal challenges from civil rights groups who claim might that the service is blocking for too much. Now. It's like, Facebook, can't do anything right here. You know they're trying to block the


politically oriented ads that used to not be disclosed. The now said, Lee, the block in the meanwhile allowing adds that were not being disclosed now that they're blocking them. They are facing all kinds of legal challenges. There's no way out of this Malays is there for them. Now I think I speak for everyone. I just say, Facebook [laughter]. The next up a judges ruled that the identities of diet Madison Avenue, the anonymous, the anonymous group, exposing sexual harassment in the ad world,


Michelle must be revealed and face one of their targets in court. This is going to be ugly. There's no way to put this in any other terms. This is going to be really, really ugly, isn't it? It is and it's it's just it. It it's just at and mine field of it to talk about these things. It makes us all look bad the way this is going down. I mean, it's the slugger industry looks bad because of the harassment. The waves these people were outing,


people was nut was very questionable the way it's going to, but now to have it all come out in court cases over something that really should never have gone to court in the first place, which is just ugly on a really want to be part of it. Well, mixed up the Middleton family was caught, leveraging the Royal connections. Again, this time featuring a Michigan Markel look alike. Name Megan loved whistling. They put a banner up, customize part of party banner with


Meg and Marco look alike on it in the name, Meghan to promote a product on their party website. So Janet, I'm looking at this going. This is not the first time that the Middleton's have been caught in a obviously promotional use of the Royal ties. And although you know they are family brands do get in trouble for doing this on a regular basis, infringing on what's called the rights and publicity. So using that, the name and


likeness of a public persona for commercial gain. By given that familial connection here, I don't think it's a very big deal and I think they should [laughter]. There are mixed up Burberry hired designer Peter Saville or Seville marilla sure, which way pronounce it to redesign their logo. So after four weeks of intense work, Mike, they ended up with an all cats and serve type dribbon. I'm looking at this logo. Did you get a chance to take a look at this


logo that I posted on the flip alone? I did. I did. This is the start, all [laughter]. I'll bet they spent four months internally developing the brief, though. I'm sure he did know why they didn't why for weeks and all four months. Like I think that's a big, a news story, the Lakota, south, and of course the war Keno ad company which is a walkie apparently in Japanese means armpit. For


a company in Japan thinks that armpits expose them subways or the next grade add media, Janet. So. I think the pictures speak for themselves of people with their arms raised above their head because they're holding on to subway, train rails. And they've got this adds slept across their armpits. The good thing is that their first client is actually an underarm hair removal service [laughter]. But


I think it's probably it'll be a novel thing for about a month, and then people will get used to it and it won't be very interesting anymore. I gave this way too much thought I'm thinking of like even if you had other products that had nothing to do with armpits you'd want to make sure that those add the replacing actually smelled good or did some kind of deodorizing of surface. Otherwise you're ad is going to always be associated with armpit smell, which is really not very attractive in my opinion, book. Well, look that most advertising is just talking out


of its ask. So this [laughter]. We'll have something to add to this list or just want to discuss it. Comment on line used the hash tag Advil five that's pound. Add fell in the number five. Well, that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this pod cast visit our website up the being Costa calming. Click on the subscribe link. If you're Nigerians listener, we've also provided a direct link to the Austrians music store or just search for the beam passed in the


pontiff's directory, vitamins, and whichever broadcast director use when you subscribe, please leave reserve. You gotta comment of a question. We'd love to hear from you just under emails to being cast a female L dotcom opening theme was performed by Joseph Cambell closing theme by sea jacks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob nor p- we'll be back again next week. Hope you'll join us then.


Cool beans.