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BeanCast 510 Transcript

BeanCast 510: Milk-Toast

Date: 11-Sep-2018

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00:00:30 cast for up to 25 percent off. That's transcribe Episode 500 10 milk toast.


For Monday, August 27 2018 it's time for this week's edition of the be cast discussion about us in issues. Facing marketers today? I'm your host, Bob. Thanks for joining us. GDP are keeps surprising analysts with its unintended results. Experts. Now claim that it may actually be


given Google Facebook and other data giants more control over privacy. While stifling innovation at smaller. Competitors. Is it true? Tonight. We'll discuss. Also, understanding how political turmoil is killing creativity. Finding reasons to keep SMS around the value of productized sports. Plus this week's add fell 5. That's the lineup. Let's me. Tonight's panel.


Thanks for joining us for this week's being cast. I'm Bob north in with me on the panel for this evening. We start with an experiential inactivation expert, creative director, a campfire, Mr. nicb Racha, Nick, welcome to the program had happy to be here. Now also with us we have the executive director of Creative Technology via mail and someone I've tried to get on this program for a long long time, Mr. Craig elemental Lia. Hi, craig. Has it gone


up? It's fantastic. And finally, we welcome back senior director and analyst for customer experience at Gartner, Mr. Augie, Ray, Augie high. Hello. Thank you for asking me to join you tonight. I know well, we we have a lot to cover in. This panel seems completely well suited for the topics. We're going to talk about and I stop as the reality of GDP are continues to unfurl it becomes increasingly obvious that instead of curbing


the power of big players like Google and Facebook, it's instead solidifying their hold on user data. Meanwhile, it's forcing smaller innovators out of the market, which is not good for the innovation in the industry, which should be obvious by now. So Craig I'm going to go to you first on this question. And hopefully, you have something to say about it. But just this analysis jibe with your own assessments of GDP are and if so what are the potential


consequences? I don't know if it necessarily jives onto percent, at least from my perspective. I think that, you know, with with the added layers of regulation, and sort of the everything that GDR's sort of implying that people have to start doing from all. Ankles of collecting data, and and trying to get people to interact with anything on the internet is


what it's going to force us to do is actually create better, better experiences better content. I think people are going to find that the expectation of content being sort of just 3 I took the expectation of everything, you know, at their fingertips is going to sort of fade away a little bit. I think that age of the internet and age of sort of being able to. She's sort of expect everything everything to be at your fingertips. I just think it's it's it's time


to decide getting people to pay for it in 1 way or another. And I think people are going to pay for it through, you know, having to sort of go through different gates of acceptance in terms of understanding what types of data being being collected as they reach their unit. They're rabbit holes of whatever internet internet surfing. You're doing a pump. Yeah. I was going to say, it's it's 1 of those things where you grew up silly


right about the the the fact that we've come to expect so many things to be free, and that we have to pay in some way, whether it's giving up some privacy or giving out some kind of money, and I think that that's going to be the reality going forward and GDP ours is obviously about making sure that users are protected in the process. But can you add to this conversation a little bit about the user experience involved here because you know, what we're getting


here is increasing consolidation. Increasing control of the user privacy spectrum by Google by Facebook by the big players in the data markets. And you know, GDP are was supposed to curb this, and this, and it doesn't seem to be doing any of that it seems to be not protecting user privacy. And because users don't really care enough to be concerned. All they know is all these smaller players are asking for their


privacy. And they're saying, no. But the big players that the us or saying they're going to say yes to and that seems to consolidate the power of the big players. I think there's a short term and long term effect that will have to wait to see how it plays out in the short term, clearly the L, quote, unquote, monopolies Google Facebook Amazon do benefit from this. They get permission at access that is much greater than the small end, quote unquote, innovative players. But we also have to


appreciate that. This puts a giant target on the backs of Google Facebook. And Amazon is as we all know, the EU fines could be up to 4 percent of revenue and that could be 1 point 6000000000 dollars for Facebook. If it is found to have broken some of the most serious of the roles at some point in the future. So I think in the short run there might be a little bit of a shakeup at in the long run. It just puts a great deal of responsibility on Google Facebook, an Amazon to be documenting it to be careful to not cross lines. So


you stop for a second before you go into next point because they you know, this this point about the fines and about these massive fines the key being tossed around. And people saying this is what they could be facing. And it's all doom and gloom. Do we really believe anybody's gonna pay a 1 point 6000000000 dollar fine? And the end of the EU actually comes after Google or Facebook. Do we really believe that they're gonna do that? Do I think that the end will try to assess such a Welsh right Novo try


to assess it, but there's no way they're gonna beg the the players are going to actually paid. Well, I mean, first of all finds a fine. I mean, I, you know, I can't comment on the legalities of how it might play out what they might actually pay. But you know, there's a tremendous cost to Google Facebook and Amazon if they face a threat of a fine, regardless of whether they they get hit with the 1 point 6000000000 of, hey, the 1 point 6000000000 or whatever it may be pity. You clearly has been much more activist than regulators in the U


S have been, and they certainly have a bias toward protecting the privacy of the user. So, you know. In the short run. Yeah. What's happening that the thing that I think is interesting about this is that which is going summit unexplored here. Is what this really means is that marketers were perfectly happy to use a web of small data providers without having any idea where the data where the data came from or whether consumers consent to it.


And it took a law for them to begin to care. I mean, it just demonstrates how little marketers know about the chain of value. How things are working where their data is coming from. And ultimately, you know, whether in fact, they they give a great deal of care for the trust and privacy and respect of the customer. So I think that the GDP is good. I think it is shining. A light on the fact that many marketers were being very loose with some of their


policies and some of the the providers they used in the short run. I I'm not that worried about a threat to quote, unquote, innovation here because the innovation typically that we're talking about has violated some, you know, some consumers rights and privacy in order to be delivered better advertising. So I think the onus is on Google Facebook and Amazon to do it right or to face pretentiously, really serious. Not just find not just the the the legal costs. But even the reputational aspects of


being caught doing something. I mean Facebook's taken a couple of body blows. We know the users are are stalling clearly Facebook is getting a little concerned the last thing it would need is a giant scandal in the EU because they've been accused of misusing people's data right now. True true. I mean, it's like, obviously they are on their best behavior. But 1 about this factor of you know, it's easy for a big player to get you to agree to give


you up give up all your privacy yet. The small players are having struggles and are just pulling out of the year European Union or pulling out of markets are potentially even going out of business because they can get the kind of trust that the big players enjoy and it's not because of any kind of nefarious deeds on the smart of the smaller players, neck, right? I mean, it's like when innovation is being stifled. Just because it it's usually because some big player controls all the cards and the small


player can't even come and sit at the table. Yeah. I think it's it's really frustrating. From the from the creative end in that scenario with GDP are which isn't exactly in my proverbial wheelhouse. But at the same time, I tend to believe that smaller innovators are always going to emerge in they're going to do so through transparency earning trust giving consumers a reason to trust in always making sure that on that end. Of the equation. They see and feel like they're in part in a relationship with a


trusted partner, providing value in Israel, undiminished Nunes is to look at the other end in feel like the Borg, Missouri. This is this is really interesting. What you're saying? I mean, it's you know, I think that it's the tendency of the doomsayers out there to go on and say that the reason that these small players being forced out is because they're not being given a fair shake by the big players and the audience just doesn't trust them. But no what you bring up is is a valid point without good creative


without good messaging without a proper introduction. That's going to gain the trust of the user. You're never going to succeed. So that's always been the innovator dilemma, you know, right [laughter]. Although I gotta say I mean, let's say that they haven't done anything wrong, and and probably many of them happen. But the reason they're being forced out is that they they can't demonstrate that the data. They have they have permission to use. If they could demonstrate it


if they had consent. They went in can be be getting pushed out, and so your contention is that they're getting pushed out without doing anything wrong. I I'm not sure that's actually true. I if they had permission they still they still have a long line of marketers marching to their door back even an even longer line. Now, if they demonstrably had permission. So I think that maybe this bears just a little more digging. Fair enough. And it's the Filipinos


revolved things are pulled out of a magazine and start looking at a podium magazine. I can't remember the last time every time I pull it off a website. I'm mean, I take all this with a grain of salt in your points Reno. Well, taken overall there e. There is the fact that if someone is not getting the permission of the user, then they may not have the right of that data in the first place. I think that's a that's a very valid point something that we need to consider. But let me go back to Craig here


for a second. You know, we look at GDP are and we look at the intention, which was the control the way the Google Facebook. The big data players were infringing and impinging upon the privacy of people in the European Union. It doesn't seem to be having that affect Dewey expect more legislation to expect doubling down and enforcement on the existing rigid legislation. What what what do you think's gonna happen? And what does


the environment look like in 5 10 years? I think I think that I think that. I think the big I think the big players are going to realize that it's they're going to have to play play to play. They're gonna have to pay to play. I think they're gonna they're gonna. Of step up to the table and start. I think. Helping these legislators actually understand, you know, how to better create these these these sort of these laws, and these these guardrails, I think that you know, there's no 1 better


poised. Than these guys to sit down at the table. And then start getting them to understand, you know, where the data's coming from how the data's being used because I don't think the legislators themselves. Fully understand. And I think that know what we're going to see is. Somewhat of a. Experience a sort of renaissance where you know. Golota these smaller players that you're talking about that are being pushed out are going to be replaced by people who are natively


trained in being able to. Start transparent businesses and understanding how to you know, be transparent with. With their users and create interfaces that are fully transparent. I think we're going to start seeing new paradigm in in the big is I think the big guys will probably look at a lot of these smaller peak smaller players as acquisition targets in order to start infusing some of that culture into their companies, and and being able to find the talent that are able to sort of


natively or or more fluidly kind of navigate these waters because I think, you know, like many of us when the internet first started. No 1 really knew what the hell was going on. And now, we're all sitting on a podcast talking about the next phase of you know, what nobody kind of knows what what might search. I I I I think that I think that these guys are going to kind of Wade wait it out for a little bit probably probably cozy up as much as they possibly can. And and try to you know, try to. Be sort of


the test bed for a lot of this stuff. And then I think that if they buy their time long enough, there's going to be plenty of kids coming up with the some really good ideas that will centrally sort of safeguard their companies from the next wave of technology on infrastructure in and compliance. Nick, what's your take on this whole situation? How would you sum it up is it is it a matter of the fact that the existing legislation is not working is in a matter of the


existing legislation is effective, and it's going to continue to be effective, or is it that there's no possibility of actually legislating this collection of data in any kind of effective way. That's going to protect us a privacy. And we just need to do our best to shore up the gaps. Make sure that people are playing honestly with their requests for this data. But the whole idea of privacy needs to go out the window. Wha what would you say? I think there's going to be a scramble and adaptation. I mean,


my my what I was when I was working on a on a kids candy brand when cope ahead and the way that we all had to really move very very quickly, it meant that everything was going to get an died, and it was going to change all the rules, but we all adapted it moved on. And we kind of like sorted. We kind of sorted out. Trudge the path forward. I think the savings going to happen here. You know, what I'm curious to see what sort


of legislation hits nationally as opposed to overseas. And what followed is there? I mean, obviously European legislation has impact on plenty of US based companies. But I'm just curious. I'm curious to see if anything ever anything hit in the states. Yeah. That would be interesting. And it's this as we've proven over and over again legislation the states is even less effective than what it's been in the European Union. So it'll


be an interesting time to keep a keep ahead of. Well, I'm going to talk next about the advertising in a politically charged climate, and how could possibly be making creed of just vanilla and playing an awful. It's an interesting thought, we'll talk about that in just a minute. But I I to talk about our sponsor linked in and your chance to get a 0 dollar free ad credit. So there's real reason to listen to this 1 guys. First of all, let's talk about


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offense to offend in ad since President Trump took office. However, which has according to ad week resulted in uninspiring work cross the spectrum. I'm not sure I completely agree with his neck. But this article try delay this all at the feet of political polarization is this. The problem is the problem taking the edge out of ads. This is this polarization is this political polarization is this the


problem? It's taking the jet of ads or is it a sign of a bigger problem after that Wray lovely tee up that was absolutely flawed in so many ways, please take it from me. And let's hear your grade is a great tip. So I read this piece in there's absolutely some false attribution. That's not to say that there isn't some impact. And the thing that I thought. With most accurate about it was lower effectively a east. It Cole McCoy talked about all the recent were coming out being quote, mild


salsa, and I like the term milquetoast a lot. But I don't think the political climate is 100 percent responsible and thinking about that and really loving that term militarised looked into its etymology. And saw that it came from a comic strip character named casper milk toasts who was described by his creator as quote, the man who speaks softly and gets hit with a big stick [laughter] because I think agencies, especially the holding company agencies some of which I've worked for our are getting hit are about to get hit with a big stick. And I think there's at


least 3 big reasons that have nothing to do with the current man occupying, a Pennsylvania. So the first of those in it's at this is I'll be quick on this 1 because I think you guys actually touched on it last week on your show, which is industry brain-drain. I think as far as creative minds and the notion of the best and brightest that they're not coming to ads. There won't be any creators. Go to product Centric, startups, become engineers or go to Google Facebook net flicks, yada, yada. So just by nature. I don't think we're getting the cream


of the crop. Because our spaces in a sexy a draw as it was in in 99 around when I started or in 2000 and 9 when when social jobs, really broke. You know, I've heard that I've heard the complaint on for a number of years, and I've even participated in the complaint on occasion, you know, that somehow the best and the brightest are not being sought after not seeking the ad industry. As a career. But. I can't see how that


is apps. How that's the truth. And that's why creativity is floundering at agencies because I also know being a fairly creative guy. How how tough the pressure is on a creative in this business to keep everything to keep the client happy. And if your client doesn't wanna take risks. There's no way in hell that you're going to convince your client to take that risk. I mean, you know, maybe once in a blue moon, you get a client who's willing to


actually push the envelope and do something super interesting, but it seems like the general climate. Is what drives the the lack of creativity in advertising, it, you know, I I met so many young creatives who were absolutely inspiring in the way that they think in the way that they bring up ideas, and yet they're not able to bring these ideas to life or fruition in a campaign because they're not allowed to. So I don't believe that that


first comment that somehow the best and brightest are not being attractive advertising is is actually valid wouldn't. And an evil. The good news. Is that what you just started to describe as my reason number 2 [laughter]? Oh my gosh. I've had a slightly different experience with with the youths today with the up and comers that I interview. But I certainly agree with everything that you said about what's about what's going on. And how it I think


has much more to do with the. The agency clients relationship. But also, how people think about culture 1 of the things that I got to thinking about was that mass shared culture. The idea of everyone watching the cheers finale. The finale everybody talking about alka seltzer commercial that's been dying for a long long time. And that predates Trump, and I feel like agencies particularly with big broad mass market, creative pieces have struggled as we've split into these


diffuse subcultures it used to be that you could work on the fringes of mass culture, and everyone would still get the joke, or if not the person next to them could clear the men, but the system of references are so split between the in what I look at his subcultures now, so it's really hard to resonate across divides. And because agencies clients chasing ROI kind of being fearful wonderland is broadly, as they can that's how we're getting this, no, toast, work or work, that's devoid of point of view, political otherwise,


and I thought of something that I heard when I was doing some work in the gaming industry and the term was used for approving the arts trip for proving art style to make sure that games we're going to be massively successful across the globe, particularly free to play games. And that term was the least objectionable they were real thing. They would look for creative. Not that was the best or the most interesting or the most polarizing or daring. But like we gotta guys we found the least objectionable test to achieve that silly


works in that world. But I really feel that that's an agent with the work that agencies are finally presenting to clients or maybe scared clients are willing to buy ends up being the least objectionable. Let let me let me let me go deeper on that 1 first burgers. It's this. There's 2 ways to look at this. I think that it's clear that we can't blame. Trump for this. I mean, I think that that's that's just a civil. I think Trump for any loan


on and on. And this is this is a silly headline. And it was meant to get clicks. So we can throw that out the window. But this idea that we look for the least objectionable. Is that partially because of the ongoing will be increasingly divided populace. In the United States globally. Is it the political polarization that's been slowly brewing that has led to our current predicament?


As as a fee, creative in being interesting and telling a story that don't have to. Probe into the political polarization. Really? I think I yeah. I do think this is a joke because you know, that I wear my politics pretty a pretty during the early United Augie young. You your politically motivated, I would never suspect subtle, but I'm not gonna blame Trump or political


polarization forbade creative. And I don't know if it's the least objectionable or it's just the decision making by committee that strips out anything that could be the least bit offensive and here, I'm not just talking about the politically offensive. Maybe maybe it's that we're all too sensitive. I still don't think that's it. I think some brands can still breakthrough Intel great story. So I I what I think is that the industry is being given an opportunity to succeed


in many respects by clients that have turned very. Conservative. And again, I don't mean politically I have to watch my languages are talking about this. Because it sounds like I'm coming back to it. But I just think that you know, a lot of bad decisions are being made. And I don't think that we can blame politics for the fact that cookies and tires and cars can't do a better job of of being sold. You know, Craig here, we we've been taking this from this angle all through this conversation that somehow the


articles, right and the creativity is bad. And that everything's milk toes than that. There's all kinds of problems. You know, the first thing that struck me when I read this article was creativity isn't all that bad. I mean, there's just as many bad ads today is there were 20 years ago and vice versa. It seems like there's just as many good is it seems to me creativity. And interesting work is a rarity. And it's always been a rarity is just more interface. How much bad


advertising there is because there's so much more of it. Exactly. I think I think there's not only to so much more of it. But I think also the the sort of the. You know, there's so many people out there today. I mean, I don't know if we've ever seen the amount of content that's being created at mass. And I think that still much content being created at such a such a high fidelity and people are creating really really really good content. That's. Very authentic.


That's that's true to to the people who were watching it that serves every single reach out there. And I think that, you know, creatives in inside of agencies having to compete with that, I think it's really difficult. I don't think there's ever been a time where a as a professional creative. You've had so much amateur content to compete with. And I think, you know, clients very much Jerry oftentimes will find a piece of content online created by you know, some some kid in his basement and say, you know,


this is the kind of stuff we're looking to do, and, you know, you sort of being your sort of beholden to the life of the type of stuff that's out there that sort of, you know, turning people's heads and getting people's attention. And in fact, he comes that becomes a that becomes his, you know, sort of the the the benchmark, and you know, you have creative directors that can you know, you can't. You can't direct that type of stuff. That's the type of stuff that's coming out of culture. And I think culture today is so infused with


with. With everything that, you know with all this content. That's being created. I think we're just which just dizzy, I think the creatives within agencies like there's there's no there's no sort of northstar. There's nothing. The kind of like point you in the right direction. There's just so much everywhere that you're competing with on on a daily basis at a at a clip that is just absolutely blinding. It. It's paralyze almost paralyzing. I can tell you personally just like looking at my teams in in. In


house and an across the board across the network has just like seeing what these kids have to compete with its I I mean, I personally I don't I don't I don't know that there's ever been a time that you know, that you have so much going on and and trying to break through that noises is almost impossible. So, you know, the level of creativity. I I agree with you about the level of creativity hasn't. Hasn't died down. I you know, I go to can't every year. I see the best work. I think it's like it's still up there. I think it's really good. But again,


what you're comparing it to and what's out there. There's just so much good content. It's just really hard to break through. You made the blessed? You may be right and hasn't been any different. But I would just ask the people listening. They're all marketing professionals that they of their favorite ad campaigns of all time. The things that really stood out. Volkswagen thinks small of Coca Cola want to teach the world to say, I'm just thinking of things off the top of my head Absolut vodka and all of their really striking ads. Miller


lite tastes great less Billick that 1 of those that I mentioned. It was created in the last 30 years. No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute Augie. That's that's like the the focus group of 1. And you happen to be as old as I asked [laughter] to bring up their favorite ad campaigns. Can you bring up anything that you think in the last 15 years now this could be? You know, the internet the fractionation of channels all sorts of things I think that can contribute to this. I'm not I'm not laying blame here. But could you name anything in


the last 15 years than you would think stand head shoulders with the things I just mentioned, you know, there's a couple campaigns. I think police station has always been doing a fantastic job. And I love the VP of everything campaign that was wonderful work. I think that the Henry 5 PM everything campaign for because I care for the for PlayStation. It was for the PlayStation 2. He was the VP of everything it was a brilliant campaign because the toll talk not just about the gaming system. He talked about


how it was also able to do everything connect you online. Connect you to Blu Ray player connect Utah. I mean, it really was a well thought out and well executed campaign that was entertaining in an extremely well targeted to its audience, and they came out in the last decade. Right. I mean, I it was when I left I guess in the last 15 years for emerald nuts that I thought was terrific. And I still like I still like gyco stop. But what's telling to me is of the big spots this year? How many of them are


just dance choreography? Because I feel like that's the only thing they can go really broad [laughter] is this shy. At apple I own Ps. There's a big piece I feel like there's at least half a dozen. Just popular song and people dancing to it. Saying nothing objectionable. Spots. And I feel like that's when this article this piece was very TV Centric. I think I do believe there's lots of Greek creative going on all over the place. I do think that V in particular


has been pretty flat because it's trying to be brought in and I think that goes back to what I mentioned last week we need to stop thinking about advertising is being a television spot or a spot of any kind and think of it more like an ad like object. You know, the blob is recalling Guam always tells me, you know, this ad law. This I'd like object can be anything. And I think you of all people neck or great example of how you think about


advertising, you think about promotions and marketing as being something that has never been seen before as opposed to just using the same old media's in the same old tired mix to get across the message. And I think. This might sound selfish ridiculous. But to go with to go with some of these references. I thought of when I was reading this article the Ricky Nelson song garden party. After after he got booed out of Madison Square Garden for not playing anyways MSG for not playing his hits. And he said he wrote the song garden


party with of course, when you can't please everyone. So you've got to please yourself focusing on your insight is what you do in. Now. Worrying so much about. Checking every box is something that I really think the clients and account departments need to do more than creatives. But I do believe that creative get pressured to check those boxes and everything they can do to resist that they should. Where we're going to move on to our next topic. The evening the doomsday patrol is targeting


SMS. Now was the rise of IP messaging SMS seems to be all, but forgotten in a lot of people are writing it all finally and yet Augie SMS remains a critical tool for marketers. I personally get lots of opted in messages on a regular basis. So should we evolved past the granddaddy of mobile messaging, or is it still was central to user experience? What's your take on it? Yeah. Well, I think SMS is dead. Like, Email is dead and


[laughter] quite life. Thank you and do well. So my partner Charlie Goldman has a report that he produced last year that I think is worth mentioning he had some research in it. The foul that SMS is 1 of the top 5 most adopted mobile marketing tactics, but. 60 percent of mobile market marketers that we serve aid. Don't use it and 1 third of those have no plans to invest in the coming 12 months. So. Charlie's taken and 1 that I agree with is that SMS is is not dead yet.


Now all that being equal. We have to recognize the rise of of IP messaging the internet protocol messaging, the the WhatsApp and the messengers of the world. They offer much richer interactivities. They offer. A user controls that are greater and so this is clearly going to continue to grow and it's to eat away. I think it s about but. An SMS. It's gonna be alive years from now. Customer experience a c x guy is you know, and at the end of the


day the thing that I'd say to any client is understand your. A market might understand your audience. What? What are they using? What are they want to? And I think that a lot of marketers still have a lot of people who use us a mess in the end. There's a lotta value there. And you know, the last thing I'll say really quickly is just that. Whether you're doing IP messaging or an SMS the fact of the matter is is that you have to have an integrated sort of messaging strategy around your campaigns around your interactions, and whether it's an SMS


it whether it's what zapper. Or messenger? You need to be able to execute it in the way that your customers want. So I I, you know. People love to talk of his you know, you you talked about this being the doomsayers. I agree. People. Love to say things are dead SMS is not dead. It's going gonna be dead for years. But it's just not going to look as sexy as it did a few years ago. Agreed agreed on a point of no comment. But I do when a point out to a move onto Craig here for his commentary on this.


You know, ask the math continues to be the 1 system that is universally accepted and adopted everywhere meaning every single phone out. There has SMS on it not every phone has, you know, Facebook messenger, despite the fact that it has such huge penetration. Not every phone as watts up. Not every phone has elva many Google messaging systems that keep failing. So you know, when you look at that.


Is SMS in going to be something that's a critical function. Or is it always just going to exist as kind of an underpinning of communication that helps to drive functionality across devices when you need it the most what what's your take on that? It is it is it less about is it less about being the future of messaging and more about just being the underpinnings to make sure that you can get alerts out to every individual out


there. I mean what what's your take on that? Well, I think you know, I I like the way you framed now, frankly, this is kind of the underpinning. But I I think you know, culture tends to surprise us at I think when you look at sort of the the native aspect of it just like you said it's on every device. It is tried and true. It's it's trusted so on and so forth. That's sort of when we get surprised than somebody does something with that kind of like completely targets on turn turns the whole thing on its


head. And and kind of gets us to look at it from a completely different perspective. And you know, just just like you. You know, you see different audio formats starting to come back into play and people are appreciating sort of the sound quality. And and and and just the the the nature of of the of the tactile sort of experience around different audio older audio formats, I think that SMS in in the same way might have that sort of charming addition to go sort of the. The the


customer experience continuum, right? So I think if a a doggy said, it really, well, if you if it's done the right way, if it's done in in a in a really unexpected way that kind of hate to use the term, but you know, you sorta surprised into light or you sort of provide a lot of value in sort of a little packet. I think people will will appreciate the channel for what it is. I think I think it's just a matter of like how is it going to evolve the up within its role on


on our on our smartphones. I think that you know, as people as people adopt. What's up as people? Adopt a Facebook messenger so on and so forth all of these different apps. Become more robust, they might become much more cluttered, and we might want just something really simple. I'm really easy and something super straightforward. And you know, 1 of these. You know, non creative creatives in 1 of these agencies might actually get creative and do something super interesting with the channel. And then all of a sudden, it becomes something that we didn't


really expect. So I think I think it's not going to go away. I think it's going to hang around. It is tried and true. I hope someone does something really interesting with it. I hope that is we become become more a masters of connecting experiences and been able to we've things and orchestrate experiences from a customer perspective in ways that are really nice and fluid and and and compliment 1 another I hope SMS plays a big role in that. And hope


it it it it finds its place, you know, along that continuum, but you know, right now, I think it is what it is. I think it it. It does what it needs to do. But who knows it might might? I accept her. I some I sometimes think that people think way too, literally linearly when they're thinking about SMS, and they're thinking about it in terms of it's a messaging system. So we need to send messages to our customers. And I think that that's the trip up, Nick. Right. Because it's just like


a there's so many opportunities like the the I'm working with a start up right now that is we'll take your phone number on a web page, and then text you a 1 time code, which will then populate all the information on this web page. So you don't have to figure it out. You know, you don't have to spend pages and pages and pages filling in all this information. I mean, it's tremendously useful. It's definitely part of the marketing funnel. And yet.


It's not as an outbound message. It's just a functionality that improves the ability for anybody doing registration online. To actually complete the registration as opposed to being frustrated and abandoning it. And I think that that's the kind of thing that SMS is tremendous at providing. I mean, it's it can improve the the user experience universally across the spectrum. It doesn't have to be about outbound messaging, right? Now. I


absolutely agree. I know, you know, it's always it's up people always chased the hot new thing. And there's lots of IP messaging tools, but people are extremely promiscuous with their apps, and yet they're not promiscuous who had as their phone number everything you want to hold onto your phone number forever. Which is why I think that I think that SMS is the foundation I think the way that you describe the dynamic earlier was was right was right on. And I think that it gets gotta to come to. It's going to come to


creativity of application, but I don't I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. Here's the thing. The last thing I want to point out the ubiquity is 1 thing. But we started tonight talking about permission right in and getting permission. And ultimately, whatever you do with SMS or any of the IP tools IP messaging, tools, you you still need permission. And I think it's going to be up to the brands to get that permission than consumers are going to choose whichever messaging app they want, and so I don't think it's a matter


of that SMS is going to live or die. I just like I don't think it's the WhatsApp or messengers in the liver die. I just think that we need unified strategies around messaging that allow people to select their favorite perferred tool, and you know, whether or not what's WhatsApp or messenger is as ubiquitous as SMS isn't really the questionnaire. It's it's going to be up to what your customer really wants. Amen. Amen to the roar. Last topic real quick


running out of time. How? So now, pay per view golf is apparently a food [laughter]. Head to head battle between Tiger Woods. And Phil Mickelson has become the latest way golf marketers can make money, but it follows the trend of creating more and more value out of a curse words product across all sports. Craig is this is obviously great for sponsorship for the short run. But is there a ceiling is there really endless opportunity for


people to productized their sporting events and sell paper views and do head to head matches and all kinds of things that are not part of a typical sports fair. Or is there a ceiling where there's just gets to be too much of this going on, and it all starts to fall apart. I I don't know if know necessarily ceiling right now, I think you know, you look at basketball. I'm I'm a huge basketball fan. I I go to a lot of non NBA events


in Manhattan at various parks and a lot of 1 to 1, you know, matchups with professional athletes. I am traffic on and so forth. I I don't I don't know. If there's a I don't know that there's necessarily a feeling I think if you look at. If you look at what's going on with east sports right now, for example. I mean, you could potentially you know, like. No have these events where LeBron James versus Magic Johnson. As an e sport, you know, 1 on 1 type of matchup where people will


fill, you know, Madison Square Garden to watch too. You know, phenomenal eastward players go up at eh 1 against 1 another using the sort of the avatars of usage athletes. I think that. If you look at where he sports is going, and you kind of look at the trajectory of. Of that particular that particular field. I think that kind of gives us a nod as to what the potentialities here is. And I think that. You know? Nothing. Major league sports is really starting to. Come to terms with the fact that e sports


forget these sports, but something is nipping at its heels and something is sort of threatening to. Had a take away the share of you know, it's kinda dethrone them as as his tenant the big spectator. You know, monarchs, and you know, I think that. Sports today, like really has to go in the way of this this sort of entertainment. Wrestling has been not enough. A huge expert on wrestling. But I think I


know enough about it to know sort of how it works. And I think they've been doing it for for 3 years. And I think once you start moving out of that kind of demographic and you start moving into things like golf and seeing tiger go head to head with. Phil. And or, you know, LeBron Colby outta Gaya a 1 on 1 St. match, you know, people are going to pay for this. You know, and when you have so many channels competing. For for content. So you have Amazon you have net. Flicks. Your Facebook you have. You know, you have a twitch


of all of these channels or are looking for content in and they're going to be producing this type of content or or buying the type of this type of content from people were producing it. And as long as their appetites are as as they are. And they seem to only be getting more and more voracious. I think we're going to see that. More and more of these types of events. So right now, I don't think there's a ceiling. I think it's just going to get explode at I'd be really interested in seeing sort of how the dust settles.


Yeah. I totally agree with with with with the creek that I mean this. I just want to state that this all started about a year ago. I think the potential for it with McGregor versus Mary weather with across fate UFC star against the greatest living boxer 6 point 7000000 buys globally about 80 bucks a pop so I think at that point everyone started to salivate. The sports core had been monetize. But the massive casual who want to see these fantasy mashup matched upset at almost an exhibition


level. That's a that's a massive audience. I won't be surprised. If danika Patrick's racing Dell junior like lady [laughter], I'm not getting in and bring in Bleacher report live getting into this adversity, the Bleacher report, their audience, golf and upmarket sport. But then I'm thinking disposable income. Not not at not a bad bet to get on the map in tested out having tiger versus Phil for for 9000000 bananas were great talking to you guys. But it's time for the Advil


5 before we get to that segment of would you want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guests the gun and allow them the each Jewish a shameless plug starting with Nick Brock? Brought you you can find him a campfire That's the home of campfire the agency. That is the best doing experiential marketing that I've ever run across 1 of the 1 of the most amazing amazing shots. So Nick what's going on in your world? What would you like to promote? Let's take care of it. You can check us out. Everyone at campfire

00:49:59 We have some work debut next week as part of our ongoing program for USA networks the purge. This is an on-air continuation of the program that we ran at San Diego comic con. So take a look at the at purge shopping in tune in for 15 minute purge shopping channel infomercial September first at 10 45 pm on scifi. That's fantastic. I love what you guys didn't do very cool stuff. The next up. We have


Craig el-amal Alamilla almost almost tripped up on that again, sir. Craig elementary you can find him via That is the home of 1 of the most effective and powerful and largest digital agencies out there doing some truly amazing work. So tell us what's going on in your world. What would you like to promote cry? What what isn't going on in our world? I think. Motion wise, we we actually just launched the really interesting piece of work for the


United Nations. Just last week. We we've we've partnered with the United Nations over the past few years in launching 1 of their biggest star there because Stafford sauce of the year around world humanitarian day in this year. He. We really went sort head on with with some of the bureaucracy that goes on at the U N, which is a which is primarily centered around the the concept of a petition. And we wanted to challenge the concept of the petition this year. And


we believe young people. Down petitions to be a second not non non-effective, and and not really not very relevant. So we completely reinvented the idea to petition for for the U N in a really cool. Interesting way. You can check it out at world humanitarian Where we're allowing people to sign up Titian with with selfie, and then that celsius gets gets ported to a living petitions piece of artwork statue. That's


in the U N right now can be seen at the entrance of the general assembly. Some really cool works really interesting thinking there, you know, it's our team in the amount. New Yorker just did an absolutely phenomenal job definitely worth checking out. Headset. That sounds great. So, yeah, if you if you have an opportunity, definitely go and check that out and last, but not least Augie Ray blogging away at He's the head of experiential marketing, I'm sorry, a customer


experience. So. Doing a bang-up job in always coming up with the the latest trends and issues in that particular sector, so Thomas what's going on in your world Augie? What would you like to promote? Yeah. I have to say for me nothing nothing special to promote here. Just more of the same. We're doing good work for our clients Gartner in the last year merged with L to the research firm in New York and corporate executive board in the beginning a lot of synergy out of that. So if some of your listeners happened to be interested


in research and advisory services. I just ask him at checkout, or or reach out to me in an architect connected to the right people. Sounds good. And as for me for more information about me or the show. Visit the being Very confined to complete show archive. You can find out how to consult with me. You can find out how to advertise on the show as well. So check it all out at the being And don't forget if you want transcription services, and you would like a transcription of this show. Go to transcribe

00:53:29 cast. They are providing listeners with a special discount for your first time transcription, and they're providing transcriptions on our website. So if you wanna get the transcription of this show, you'll get it within a week over at the bean So check it all out at transcribed cast. And now it's time for the ad fell 5 or rundown of the lowest moments in marketing advertising in public relations from the last week. And first up. This is


just an ad fell. Because the used advertising, it's not necessarily not necessarily a bad on the advertising industry per se but soccer star Tomas replica. Wanted to really stick it to his ex wife. So he took out an ad offering her up for escorts services big laughs until replica begins a 6 month jail sentence. A man Nick what's going on here [laughter]? I have to say is


red card on the play [laughter]. Next up for is. And has that nasty habit of throttling? Bandwith? Once you exceed your limit just a fact got accepted, except they probably should have checked who they were doing it to Craig since reports surfaced that they were massively throttling. First responders in in the California wildfires than in Hawaii during the hurricane. This is like a nightmare when it comes to public


relations disaster. Major nightmare. I think I think we're going to see some of these folks getting some some special unlimited plans that for us customers will host after. But dia do this isn't a PR nightmare. Now, next up Sony is denying reports that in court they were forced to admit that the post humorously released Michael Jackson album, they put out. Had 3 songs Augie featuring other


singers who kinda sounded like Michael Jackson, but not [laughter]. This is you know, I don't think. So I think he's got to look at the man in the mirror because this is really bad. Okay. Good. Russia has good reference. Next stop Laurie award winning. That's the big South African add a word. Trump versus Varivode. I can't


even say the word, but I'll try very apartheid museum radio out. Apparently went overboard. Trying to compare comments of the U S president to the former apartheid leader. Instead of using the plethora of actual damaging quotes from each man neck the agency instead chose quotes from each that are largely dismissed by journalists as being fictitious, unlike what you don't even have to try you couldn't taken quote from either these guys in


how to perfectly legitimate spot. Instead, you choose to quotes that are unsubstantiated. That supports my position to assume everything I hear and see is fake news until like my due diligence. Even even if it supports my belief [laughter]. This is this is so ridiculous. And finally, this isn't necessarily an ad fell. Augie if anything it's more of a male fell. But I love this story. Nonetheless, a woman on Tinder actually


convinced a potential suitor who wanted to give her his number that oh my God. She had the same number as he did. And the text exchange that she tweeted out had a 75000 lakes as people look to this conversation. And she convinced this guy that he actually had the same number as our earlier comment about fake news. And this is why fake news works [laughter] thing that really struck me


about this is would it be funny. If a guy did it to a woman. And I was like, Nope. I did not do not support. Not support. This tender joke [laughter]. We'll have something to add to this list or just want to discuss it comment online. Use the hash tag add fell 5. That's pound add fell in the number 5. Well, that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this podcast, visit our website at the bean and click on the subscribe link. If you're a listener


we've also provided a direct link to the I teens music store. Or just search for the being cast in the podcast directory of I tunes, and whichever podcast directory us when you subscribe, please leave assertive you got a comment of a question. We'd love to hear from you just send your emails to being cast the gmaiLcom opening theme was performed by. Joe Saibul closing theme by C Jax. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob nor will be back again next week actual be back again in 2


weeks because they're going to be off for the Labor Day weekend. And we hope you'll join us then.


Cool beans