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BeanCast 498 Transcript

BeanCast 498: Even More Programmatic

Date: 04-Jun-2018

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Band with provided by recursive squirrel, interactive transcription services provided by transcribing dotcom visit them on the web@transcribed me dotcom sluggish being cast for up to twenty-five percent off. That's transcribe me dotcom episode 400 Ninety-Eight even more programatic.


For Monday, June for 2018 it's time for this week's edition of the being cast a weekly discussion about the news and issues facing marketers today host. Thanks for joining us.


It was inevitable with online audio content, peaking and advertisers hungry for programatic solutions. It was only a matter of time into Google, jumped into the fray, but is this a good thing or simply rampant opportunism tonight the skulls also why six second ads or so hot Apple's reemergence with the new ad solution for I owe us an update on Katy PR


overreaction. Plus this week's Todd fill thought that's the lineup. Lets me tonight's panel. Thanks for joining us for this week's been cast. I'm Bob nor and with me on the panel for this evening, restart with the digital, futuristic effort, free Ginsberg executive, creative director, mister collan glum a. Hey, Bob, how're you doing? Good to speak with you again on a Sunday evening. I'm glad you can make it


[laughter]. No, also joining us. We have the vice president of content for the PGA tour. Miss Sloan Kelly. I Sloan, hey, Bob, thanks for having me. My pleasure and finally were pleased to have back the C e. O of both the twit network and artisanal agency MS look lethal report. Hey, Lisa, almost strip upon your name there [laughter]. That's okay, Bob, it's great to be back. Thank you for having me or you're welcome. Well, now that I have you all on the panel, let's get into the topics. And of course, the first one is right


up leases zelie. So we're going to direct this mostly at you, Lisa. But word is the Google is about to launch a programatic service for audio ads. Now with pod guests, trending upward in popularity in advertisers flocking to the medium, it's not really surprising that they'd be interested in doing this. Put Lisa, is this a good sign for the online audio space or is it a troubling development? What's your take on this? Well, I have to admit I'm super excited that that some of the big players are starting to step into


programatic advertising, especially with audio ads. ITO pot casts ads work. I work for T v. as we all now and for twelve years we've been at supported their has stirred ads. And there isn't a medium, so my whole thing is with Google stepping into it with panoply stepping into doing the perk romantic ads. You know, for pod cast as well, and that's who I'm working with on their new product megaphone. They're really bringing this, you know they're trying to actually set a standard now for this.


So I really think with everybody stepping into it, it's going to attract bigger brands into the space versus just a lotta D r. campaign said, I'm thinking for, you know, for the music platforms as well as for other pot casters. So for me, I think the pros are that we're going to actually possibly develop a standard with Google stepping in and starting to do it. You know something that other brands will be willing to consider in and bring to the table. My only concern my hesitation is that don't overwhelm


me with too many ads. So when testing this, I don't want it to turn out to be like digital banner ads where it's something that becomes ignored because they're not doing it correctly. So my thought is when I first saw that there may be into the space too. I'm excited because we've been testing at. We have had our newsflash briefing. That we are due on Amazon a lacks that we had tested for three months. Doing programatic audio adds, we had yes paean. We had progressive. They were seven to fifteen second pre and


post roles be approved all the brands that were brought to our Amazon. Alexis skill. I had like one grumble from one fan, but for the most part overall it wasn't overwhelming. We matched the audience pretty well going for the male audience. I think that worked really well per- progressive more so than is an because we are a tech savvy networks, so. It you know, it probably did at work as well for yes pan, but I I think it's a smart median for us to be going into when I take a look at what panoplies doing with


adding megaphone for pot castors to use where they could dynamically insert audio ads where they can either record them or you can have them solemn. They're going to command a high C p. M I mean they're going out there saying it's a $50 C p. M to buy a fifteen second ad. A 30 second ad is a little bit more in a sixties even more pet. The reality is, is. I think it's really going to give us a medium that now will finally come up with something for us to you to automate and actually provide some


numbers and attract larger brands to the space. So I am for one all end, some so much done pack their homelike my head spinning because there's a lot of different angles that I need to cover. The first and foremost is. Yeah, you didn't get a lot of complaints and yes, you match the adds to the audience, and I'm sure that's what the early pitch for that services, but look, what happened to radio. I mean, look at what happened to your average radio station average. I'd load, yes. She


still had the occasional live read ad, but mostly went into this overwhelming mass of advertisements that are inserted in. So you get maybe half an hour of content for every hour mean it's it's I can see this being really attractive on the front end. But on the back end, the the needs of advertisers and the grease is of the people involved is going to wind up making this a problem, isn't it? Aye, Aye?


That's the part I'm worried about. My my biggest con- is if you do this, don't overwhelm the audience with too many ads. Don't turn this into radio. Don't her listen to T v. when it's like, you know, go warriors for tonight when I'm watching a wires game, I don't want to see a bunch of you know ads in there. So that's my biggest concern, your concerns, my concern. But if they're smart and how they do it, we didn't allow too many ads. And if people can, you know, be intelligent about catering to their audience and not overwhelming them with too


many ads are getting too greedy. Then it'll be more effective at right now. You set the bar high, you set the cost high. You don't upper on the audience with 32 outs an hour. It it could be a good thing. Could it be a bad thing? It could be a bad thing if people go crazy and just they get greedy, they try to force way too many ads brings it, drives the cost down and the effectiveness down. So that's going to be. That's the conference is to see how people will actually utilize us in if they're really careful to not put in too many ads, I think it'd be very


effective. But. That's the unknown element Sloan as one advertiser on this panel person. Most interested in using a service like this. One of the big draws for pod casting is the authenticity of having a real live read recommendation or having some kind of bad that's created by the person who's doing the cast. And you know, when you're getting into pre produced advertisements, you run into more of a need of reach


in frequency than you do with with alive, Rita, which just needs to be reach in in an engagement with that ad. So with reach frequency being much more important, the emphasis on frequency, is this going to be attractive, reduced add load level, or do you need to have more impressions using a unit like this in order to be effective? Well, I think the the beauty of this is that it it really is going to play into some moments where I


think you'll have more of a captive audience. So that kind of frequency play that that may not be quite as important here. I mean, if you think about the situations where someone is is really going to be engaging with this kind of content, it's when they're listening to a favourite pod cast their, you know, jamming out to music, maybe there at the jam or in the car like it's you're not going to run into these situations where people are really kind of looking to click away or or to engage in something else. So it it feels to me like this is really kind of


technology sort of catching up with user behavior. And I think that it it may end up being a little bit more valuable as a result. You know, the value was the other point that Lisa brought up that I found really interesting. A $50 sepia is pretty much the best case scenario for in that unit like this. I mean, most odd units that I've heard of that are pre produced and running in a any kind of programatic solution or are going to be running around the


$12 Mark. But a $50 C p. M is pretty outstanding Cohen. Do think that your advertisers, the people who are doing digital marketing in the kind of brands that you work with, would there be interested in running a solution in a $50 C p. M given that that's kind of high for the for the typical add unit on the pocket. I'm trying to make them interested in it [laughter]. So far I wasn't early


adopter of pod cast just as a listener. And what I what kind of want to throw out to the group, especially 2 2 Lisa because she's already mentioned one of my favourite producers, putt, panoply, our planet, panoply. They they do and a host of others like Adam grabbing another one who think works with Ted to do his work life. What I see from the ones that are really, really successful and should command those $50. She PM's are the ones who are


organically, incorporating that into their conversation or the format of their pockets. Adam grant as an example, he specially curates his advertising partners in such a way that he can then do case studies on them that are relevant to the listener and to his pod cast. Yeah, that's it. That's exactly the opposite of what these programs solutions are going to be doing. That's where somebody curates the curates alive, read recommendation or creeds, and add that


specifically targeted with the voice of the of the host and and gives more of a recommendation feel to the ad experience. This is not going to be that. It can't be that because it's since his programatic it's a single add unit that's being in surged across many pod cows which takes away all the personalization, a hold on it. So there's one thing that I've been working with pod cast, one to try and figure out. So we have we have a client who is looking for a very specific regional


advertising. They have found a way or these day. The way that they expressed it to us was that they can insert digitally insert add units into. The amaze, so as if a person download the pod cast in a particular area that pod cast can be downloaded with this. With his add unit, inserted inside of it. What we've asked them to do or to look at is, can we make them regional specific add units so that if it's going to be downloaded in Florida in Miami area, it's got one unit that runs


in New York. It's another one. If its in Boston, it's another and the the the answer so far has been yes, we can do that that w- it's up to us as the creative agency to create add units that are going to be specific to that audience. And that that's why I see that programatic kind of working. If it's just going to be a generic. Insertion of an ad- it's going to be one of those things where two sloan's point, you kind of got a captive audience in your you might not click away, but the the the weight of those


ads kinda interrupting my programming, especially when I've been conditioned to listening to pipe gas, that either had something really magical about the way that they do them because they're coming from the host themselves or their front loaded or back loaded. Like like Tim Ferriss us his I barely listened to his ads because there I know they're out the first five minutes of his pockets. So I just breezed through that in turn on the pod. Cast me up 4 and a half minutes at. So. I'm not saying that. Programatic isn't going to work here, but I think it's. It's incumbent upon


us as as marketers to try and find a way that makes it organic to the media and makes it relevant to the medium because if you just start, inserting adds into it, you're just going to drive people. What we found with every piece of technology is that the more add cluttered, it gets, the less the less receptive people are. And there's this magic moment for like a good, you know, sixteen to eighteen months on a new technology where click through rates are high. It's new experience. There's all kinds of fun things to explore too, to explore on


new medium. But as soon as it becomes overly an interest, you can be a conversation about Facebook later. So don't wanna ruin the surprise. But. They as soon as the the media becomes inundated with ads, people turn out and drop off of the that channel. Looking for the next thing that's quote unquote, free, or add free. And so I I would hate to see that go that trend happened with pod casting, but it. I'm fearful that because programatic doesn't have that human touch to it. That's exactly what's going to happen.


And that's that's another concern that I wanted to bring back to leases attention and get your impressions on this isn't just the word programatic that I'm reacting to negatively because of all the bad press that's associated with programatic universe. And what is different about the solutions that you've been testing that will help to reduce things like out fraud helped to make sure that the targeting is going to be as effective as you possibly can without the. The problems that programatic has been experiencing.


Well, I'll I'll agree with you. I think programatic everyone just kind of gets you. It's like that slimy used car salesman that you don't wanna talk tail, but no, what's unique about this platform and gorgeous in the process of setting it up. We're going to actually launched the megaphone platform next month is that I can control how many ads are going to be placed into programatic setting. I can actually sell it myself in which there's no wrap share at all with em. I can have. My host voiced the ads so we can still do things more personalized.


If I control the actual ad by now, if they're selling it, I can still control who they sell it to. I could still control like I can listen to the ad rates and approved them prior to implementing in them. And if we keep the bar high end, and by the way, I do command 30 to $45 C PM's on our network already for his dread ads. And so to me, the way I look at doing, you know this, this pragmatic add spent if I can sell it to Mike sustain, you know, sponsors and advertisers were controlling the aggregates were controlling


how many ads are going to be inserted. And then we can also control where where geo targeting. Because with. Megaphone, you're actually going to be able to go, okay, I wanna hit California when hit the zip codes. I mean, we can really control by region, you know, across the world. Can you take control to zip code in the u s so so for me, I'm not really going to be testing my front loaded. Pod cast we sell pretty wild. But if I have unsold inventory or if I have some you know, I do


have some evergreen content. I'm going to be testing this platform out into me as long as we make sure I don't overwhelm our audience but too many ads. We signed things that make sense to us. We educate our audience that either we're going to have our host voice these, or you know what? We're doing that with approved the advertisers. I think that will work. It's really going to come down to in my eyes. You know, making sure your cat at your audience, making sure you're testing appropriately and not, you know, not turning a cinder radio and T v. so. And for me, the other


upside to this is that. They're doing testing and they're going to be getting metrics using. You know, they partnered with Nielsen. So what I really like about that as I try to deal with a ton of ad agencies, huge schedule agencies at know nothing about pod cast. So I'm constantly educating them, letting them know what we do, and they they're all about tracking pixels and and this and that. And it's like, that's not what you get when you come to us, you get an influence, sir, introducing your brand to our audience. So I think with adding


this people do it, right. And if the metrics come in, I think honestly, we can see a ton of big brands coming in and testing this medium. And if we do it right, it could be an amazing thing. My only concern is the people that just go, I just want to make a ton of money. How do I slap as many ads on my my content as possible? I think that's where people are going to get into trouble. But for me, I I'm I'm I'm very conservative in my testing and how we're going to proceed and do the first round.


So I have I am just more excited about it because we still cater to our audience. It's all about the audience, and I think if people pay attention in their content, who they're catering tail. I think this is going to be a great thing of one less question, if for that, because that was really a very insightful look at what you're doing and what this is capable of. So thank you for that. My my only question left though, is from a pricing stem point, if you're already commanding 35 to $40 for a library, which


is what I would consider. And I guess most advertises were considered the premium product. How are you going to convince them to buy a $50 C p. M on a something that's maybe a little less personalized and more general added unit being sold through the system? Well, I think I thought about that too, because that was along the lines of, you know everything before actually signed up. It took me about three or four months for putting you on the spot so much as your weight too [laughter]. Let me on the spot.


Actually have thought of this in. Spent had conversations talked to people, talk to my team, talk to other networks. I do self rather network, so you know it's not something I don't just test things lightly, especially like this. My whole attitude is I'm not doing my first here shed, so we're going to be posting are shows were commanding these long ad rates. I mean, I sell my interstitial outrage at one to two minutes, frankly, there Forty-five five minutes long. I mean, you listen to our network, you know, how are shows work is kind of a little bit


of that. But my attitude is I'm talking about after we have delivered in satisfy those ad rates. I'm not going to be leaving them in the content of my shows anymore. Cause to me, that's just free ads for all of my sponsors down the road. So we're going to be looking at taking are evergreen content. We're going to be plucking out those at those ads that were already there and has people are downloading in our old triangulation shows are old screened shape, screensaver shows. They're going there and appoint on a show that Samantha too old for a reason. So my attitude is, well,


I'm going to sell these program attic ads on our you know, second tier, which is our shows. We've already done our first ad tears on. And odds are people are downloading that show a month or two months later. They're going to listen to the show. So my leverage is you're gonna be getting you know, our our our evergreen content and you're gonna be getting the downloads that people are doing two to three months out. So I'm not doing my you know, first release of my shows. So my attitude is. It's almost guarantee a guaranteed listen, I can't guarantee that everyone's gonna


listen to everything when they download my pod cast or when it's going to happen. But if you're going to be buying the second tier, the second wave coming in, it might be a more effective, you know, add read for them or an almost a guaranteed lesson. So that's really going to be my leverage would testing this out. And then you know, we can go from there. I am assuming since you know the pricing is sad that I have some flexibility if I'm selling it. So I might be able to just bring it to my $45 C p. M rate and say, hey, you


or guarantee first position you know, add for that $50. So that is kind of going to play with testing it initially. But it's a good question just because of that. But because of how I'm testing it. I'm pretty sure I can almost guarantee a lesson if somebody's downloading a showy released two months ago, they're going to get it for a reason. So we'll let me let me let me test this out here with Sloan, not for you on the spot Sloan being again, the


advertiser here, but does having does having this programatic solution being the primary advertising solution actually make the live read more valuable to you. And would you be more interested in paying a higher rate for an ad that's alive, read when it's in the mix with other ads that are more pro grammatically based? I mean, it's it's an interesting question. I think the way that that Lisa is thinking about it though is,


is spot on if you think about the live, Reid is being certainly very compelling and important in the moment. But having a strategy for evergreen content, I think there's an interesting way of looking at the world, and I I don't handle add buying for us some trying to kind of wrap my brain a little bit around how how folks at my company might handle that. But even more on the publishing side kind of where where I said, I think that sort of a strategic


approach, it makes a lotta sense and it from a brand perspective too. I think it can make a lotta sense. Obviously having the testing and the metrics to back it up. Well, we'll help along the way, but being able to to sell content that you know might be a little bit older, but still really relevant to a particular audiences is very interesting. Well, and there's one more point I didn't point out to Bob is that now I can show target. Whereas on my initial first release, amazed says,


there's no geo targeting. I mean, you're you're it's it's global. That work were 75% in the u s the other 25% is global heavy emphasis in Canada, U k in Australia. But the reality is now if if I come to you and you say, hey, I only want to hit these demos. I only want to hit the zip codes, only want to hit this region. Outside of the U s. now you are buying a specific target and demo, and so it makes it pretty valuable in my eyes. If I say,


okay, you're going to hit exactly who you want to reach. We're gonna cap that, you know, Cuba's regions. And and I'm going to still have you know, legal apart or Jason, how are mega Moroni? Did he outrage? That ups, the value of this second tier adds. No, it certainly does. Well, I could talk for hours about this. Obviously this is near and dear to my heart, but we got to move onto the next topic. A recent survey seems to indicate that most media buyers out there, find that the six second


video ad is the most effective digital video add unit available Cohen a look. It's obvious why the ads are viewed through more often. You know you've got this situation where the ad is going so fast finishing so quickly that of course, people are going to sit through but is ending an ad before it can be clicked off enough reason. The judge effectiveness, what's what's your take on that whole that whole study. I have


seen so many other studies, they're all they all say that the six second ad is very effective, so I'm not going to say that this study was saying anything out of the norm. I think what you're what you're asking is slightly off from what I would expect to hear from a. If I was asking this to one of my clients, I want my clients, I would say, well, what are you looking for? You're looking for awareness. Are you looking for engagement? Are you looking for you know, is someone in the funnel looking at a consideration, you know, trying to


get into the consideration said, are you looking to convince them that they need to pick up the phone in dial and call you or something like that? And I think there's add units out there, the do each of the above. I think the six I can add can be super effective for brand awareness. They said it shows if you look at unscripted labs, which is the Google YouTube think tank on this subject. They've done a number of studies across different industries friend of mine who works at a large shop, had one of his


ads selected to go through this process. They had a three minute ad are just like I think it was like 2 and change a fifteen second ad and and a six second at every one of them had the exact same brand awareness, whether it was shown through the 6th watched all the way through. The that's really interesting is that they had more completions or more longer engagement through the longer form one than they did on the


fifteen. So they they chop this fifteen down to just make like a little branded unit out of what was a much longer story. And it performed court more poorly than the longer format won. Because they had a compelling story to tell. And if we go back and think about how long storytelling has been going around millennia. There's different iterations of every kind of way that you can tell a story. You know all the way down to that old anecdote when you have. I will said, well, women, but it's actually Ernest Hemingway.


It tells the shortest novel with six seconds, right? That's the story are sorry six words. So the the idea that we can tell a really compelling fun story and YouTube and Google is show marketers of bevy of them. Some really genius waste execute in six seconds out there. Is that is that necessarily where you want to be as a marketer? I would say sometimes yes, and sometimes now. So if you're just looking for brand awareness and you know that you're six seconds is gonna be just as valuable as the


fifteen by by that unspeakable add up front. If you think that you know true view is the way to go because you have a moral, a longer more engaging story that starts off with a bang is gonna get somebody Houghton. Click off of it, and you don't have to run the risk of paying for the added. They do click out of it. Then I would go to that. Go that route. It's really a matter of what you're trying to accomplish. Actually, say a six second. I have to go. I have to interrupt you on this one because I agree with you when you have tactics that are clearly


defined you can you can be effective in any length of time. I mean, people could do a two second ad, an if it has the right tactic and it has the right objective in you can achieve it in two seconds, of course, is going to be more effective than any other odd unit. But Mike, my question is. This general thought, but six second ads or better than fifteen second ads that they're better than 30 second ads. Yeah, they get completed more often. So there's this perc-


the perception that somehow the ad is more effective. But it's not necessarily more effective. I mean, women do controlled study. We can find out that. Yes, people recognize your brand through a six second ad in the big completed the add more often than a liter unit. And yes, it sounds really great, but it doesn't really tell us from a general sense whether or not the ad is being more effective means Sloane. When you're when you're talking about creating an ad,


you deal with long firm content Amir, dealing with the long form aspects of. Outreach with with the PGA tour, that doesn't mean that a six second ad is bad, but at the same time you depend upon longer story and engagement, and that's that's important as well. So. Does this frighten you in any way to hear that people are thinking that six second ads are more effective than the longer form content type plays that are so


popular? I mean, I think it it actually encourages me. I think in an ideal world, people are approaching their advertising strategy the way that college is laid out. But sometimes it. Doesn't come to fruition that way. And in those cases sometimes and this is maybe a little bit selfish from Canada publisher perspective. But we might have, you know, we we published a time of shorter form content across our


platforms and part of that is by nature of just, you know, audience preference on the part of it is just by nature of our sport. We might have a an amazing highlight of a hole and wine, or maybe there's an alligator on the golf course, and it doesn't need to be a longer video than you know 20 30 seconds. And if you end up having to as a user go through and and sit through a 30 second ad before you watch a 30 second piece of content, it's not always the best user experience,


which I think. Certainly if you're walking away and you have a fan, that's annoyed because of what they experienced on on your platform. It can have a negative impact on your brand from the kind of that publishing perspective, but it can also have a negative impact. I think, on on the advertiser too. So it it. It seems to kind of get around a little bit of of that aspect, which I think is good for the audience. I think it's kind of good for everybody. Absolutely, I think that those are the shorter format for


solving a very specific problem, which is that people feel overwhelmed by advertising online and that this is a way to get a brand impression with very little impact on what the user experiences. So that's that's the positive in all of this. But I guess what I'm getting at here is, does. The need for short form actually make us feel lazy about the kind of stories that were towing a mean calling. You started the talk about the fact that


longer form ads can be effective if that's what your story is of the of its engaging enough. And and for me, I kind of feel like the real story here is that that six looking ads are not necessarily the most effective add unit is just that. You know, when you're when you're using when you're trying to tell a story in a longer form add you need to have a much more compelling story that's going to keep people there. And that six second ads or just for simple brand impressions and that in the mix it doesn't make


one better than the other just makes one better for a certain tactic. There's. There's truth what you're saying, but I would also argue that it's even harder to tell compelling story in six seconds. So so the art of telling a story, if you are not familiar, check out a guy named that king who tells amazing stories in six seconds on a very regular basis, maybe 10 15 seconds at the longest. But he has he's a nursing by the way. He did some content


with us last year during the FedEx Cup playoffs. And he's brilliant. Yet he's his work. Is for years now has been just one amazing piece of brilliance after another, and he tells great store. He's in six seconds all the time, so it can be done. It takes a certain level of talent and a great minds to be able to do that on a regular basis. So there's not that many of them out there, but I think that there's also an opportunity for


the six second ad as slowest pointing out to be a teaser to get to a longer form piece of content. How do you get somebody to click on something to get to another channel or another publisher or another outlet? And there's there is. Fun interesting ways that you can use a shorter form piece of content to get to a longer form piece of content that happens is no doubt. I mean, I agree with you from the from that standpoint. I mean, there are some great ways to use six seconds for telling a


compelling story. I'm just saying that that's only going to happen in a small percentage of cases. And most people are looking at how can we Dyson slicer are 30 second ad from the T v. by into a six second that we can then place on in front of a YouTube video. I mean, I don't know what you're out experiences, but my at experiences filled with really, really bad six second ads. And I'm sure that every single one of them is showing much


be higher completion rates and much more effectiveness in their quote, unquote brand awareness because of that. But are they really I mean it it it just seems to me that will meet here a study like this. And we we start as to come to the conclusion that the six second ad is the best possible way to go out the most effective way to spend your money. You're going to end up with a lot of really bad six second ads. And I I agree with that. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I just don't want to I don't want to throw the baby out


with the bathwater because there is there is effectiveness. That's been state of tested across the board with room from more reputable ransom the article that we all read together. And they say that the the awareness lift or the awareness brand recall is the same from from a six second ad as it is for a fifteen or 30. So if we if we table that and say, okay, great, you can get away with it for six seconds. What is the actual benefit of


having just that six second ad? Is it just because you don't want to have somebody skip past it, and you want to pay for that and Prussian or is it because you actually can you've condense the story so well that it actually resonates in a more relevant fashion than a fifteen or 30. And so I agree with you. If you're just want to slam a billboard up there, that's fine. You can do that. But I would argue that every medium that we're talking about tonight has its own special merit, and we should be treating them like the like the. Opportunities that they are, I think pod cast should come from. If


you have a really relevant host within a really engaged audience, they want to hear that message comes from that host. If you're looking for a pre role thing, tell me a really funny quick story that. Listen, it's your brand in six seconds. That's fine for which that's fine for me. If you're going to make me if you can make it on skip upon its 30 seconds and your bore me to tears because you're just running a regular ad that you've you've completely waste your opportunity because you've night tailored it to the medium and the audience that it's intended to reach. Lisa, I've been


remiss about asking you about this. I mean, you you you have a lot of content that's being shown on YouTube. You're obviously do partnership deals with YouTube to generate ad revenue. At the same time you're doing long form ad reads, you know, you said that your ads are running as much as four to five minutes during the course of the content. Does a six second, I'd have any appeal to you in terms of not not getting in the way, but still giving advertiser


value. I think you can't give advertiser value. I wouldn't just run six second adds. We have. Done that on our Amazon, Alexis skull were writing okay, seven seconds. So maybe a second longer [laughter] held your feet to the fire [laughter]. I I don't when people like reach out to me and I'm like, well, what else are you doing when they reach out to my agency? And they're like, hey, I wanted your branding by, or I want to do a direct response by I always want to know what they're doing. It's like, I wouldn't recommend


just doing six second ads, but I would do long farm, I would do you know, 30 15. You could do a lot more. I guess we partner with you too, but we let everyone skipper adds if they want to. We don't make anybody suffering through them. So you know, I got to tell you, I think established brands are people doing storytelling and they're staying on that on a specific channel. They're doing long format ads. Why not do a second ad for you know, I I agree. The unaided recalls probably similar to a fifteen second ad, but I wouldn't. Just be doing six second


ads, I would you know, do it for a short term YouTube clip. That son was talking about that would be great having a six second ad, but you've got to diversify your ad rates and and make sure you do more than just that. So. I'm not opposed to him. I just it wouldn't be the only thing I would be doing. Well, moving on to the next topic, apple is getting back into the ad business according to reports this past week Sloan after the I ads ultimate failure. Some way call fiasco and apple


pushing the idea that they don't use their data for ad tracking. Is this a good idea for them to get involved in creating an ad network for iphone ups? I mean, I can see the financial value, but from a standpoint of PR value, it looks like it's a bomb ready to burst. Yeah, this is such an interesting topic, just even setting aside my my professional hat for a second. I'm I'm always interested in apple news.


It always there's always a question for me when I hear about big tech companies involving or changing things in it. It always makes me asked a question like, what? What are you like? Are you a platform? Are you a service and? And with apple on the P r. front, I mean they they've really drawn a pretty firm line in the sand on that type of question really saying, you know, we're we're in it for a device sales for for our revenue. And by the same token, you have iphone sales that are


down versus past years. So in order to keep growing revenue it, it might push them into this world where they have to start monetize in the customer. But it's it's a bit confusing. You know, 10 cook has definitely talked about the fact that you know, I think as recently as a month or two ago that. He doesn't see apple heading down that path because it would kind of I think, put them in the same space as other giants like Google and Facebook that


are are really all end on on data and personalization. And he, I think, use the word creepy [laughter] when it came when it comes to those types of exactly. Exactly. He talked about this. He was very, very vocal about us. And then why, why come up with his now? I mean, the timing couldn't be worse and a lot of ways. I mean, to be talking about this right after slamming Facebook for the same type of behavior. I mean, Colin from a standpoint of having


a baked in add system on the iphone that sounds pretty good as an advertiser. But from the standpoint of the overall user experience for apple users, what do you think about this? Is this going to cause them problems long term? Well, they've been in my opinion, I've been really sour on apple for or for a couple of years now because they keep at every turn they seemed to be mucking up their user experience. You know the situation with.


I think they went to went defunct in twenty-six teen with I add. Is that what it was? I think it was some. Yeah. The idea of having that as as a quiver are narrow in your career, I should say as a marker. Awesome. But what I've what I've come to experience from apple, I mean, even if you just look at what they've done recently with the up, the app store, trying to turn it into like a content hub where you can like surfing, like learn stuff. It's it's it's just giving away of me fighting the stuff that I'm actually looking for. So


it in four or five instances over the last couple of years. They've tried to be that friendly, giant company. And what they've only done is just made their platform a little bit less usable overall. And so I think this is going to be another example of it. I don't think that they have the internal horsepower to understand or to. Compete with Google or Facebook in terms of creating at experiences, they're going to have to play a lot of cash up unless they're just to rip it off entirely.


So I don't I don't see it being a benefit to them to get into it. There are hardware company, in my opinion, that's really good at making toys they are software for the most part. If you look at their mail client compared to Google, if you look at you there, I shot compared to a whole bunch of other Facebooks. There are just really far behind in the software category, and I don't think this is a good way for them to try and like turned the corner and monetize it. I think they're they're the bread and butter is hardware and they should stick with that. Lisa,


as a person who's running in a media agency, does this appeal to you? Are you getting any calls from clients immediately as anybody saying, this is something that I really want you to investigate, or is this something that is troubling to people who you're working with? I haven't had any requests for this yet. I find it troubling because I am kind of on the Tim cook. Bandwagon of saying how creepy it as and the now they're they're stepping into this platform, which does not make sense to me at all. Either. And I agree with you, I think their hardware company, however rumors


say that w. D c. next week. That there's gonna be no new hardware announcements. So. So now not really surprised the nap. Is that really surprising? I mean, it's a I know that they used to D c. the developer conference w. D c. to launch products in the past, but it's alternately not a product of an it's all about the software in the developers, right? I agree. But nobody likes the you know, the MAC bucks. So I was hoping that a


pull their head out naturally announced a new MAC buck. So that'll be interesting. Yeah, I I don't know. I'm on the fence on this one. I'm going to wait and see what happens with it and see if they can actually I hope they were it off from Google because frankly, they need tail. To do it right. So it'll be interesting to see what they do with that, but no, I've had nobody even interested in it yet. I think we need to see what happens because they they bombed so badly a couple of years ago at this that I just need to see what happens with it. Before I'm willing to put Italian. Yeah, jobs was


famous about saying, if we're going to get into adds, we're going to do it right. And of course they did it right of from the earth that exploit it really wasn't all that effective in the end. So we'll see how the. Do with this turnaround. And last but not least, we talked a lot about G d. P r. last week, the general data privacy regulations that just went into effect in in Europe. And Marcus Fox is a longtime listener of the show sent me an audio clip. I didn't get permission from


you Marcus to to play the clip. So sorry, I'm not going to play it right yet. But you know, in the clip he talked a little bit about the fact that when he was talking with experts out there in the field about how to handle the Email portion of things, a lot of players were overreacting is the general consensus from the legal minds that are in the in the u k right now. And what it's coming down to is everybody went away in immediately thought that we need


to opt in. Again, we need to have everybody opt in to our our male file before we can mail them. Whereas the best legal minds are now saying that all you have to do is up your end user license agreement or whatever the agreement that you had, your terms and conditions. So I just wanted to put it up to the panel. What's the fallout from this akin Email alerts who went out initially going forward saying, we want you to re opt in? Can they just throw


that out at this point and say, oh no, we're just going to put a ULA in front of you. And have you just know that you have a New York to look over? Is there any way to walk this back, Colin any faults in this manner? Are they in a good position or a bad position? If you already went out to your clients and said, hey, we'd love for you to opt in [laughter]. I I can't imagine that it's going to be. Bad, to be honest, I feel like everyone's trying to


walk the walk, the walk and talk the talk. So I mean, I've seen a couple of hundred of these in the last two weeks. Well, frankly, I'm going to frankly, I'm kind of sad because I was thinking that I was going to get a lot of my spam out of my box just by not replying to these often messages. And now suddenly I'm being told that all the all the Miller's need to do is come back and say, hit revoked advertising conditions here it is if you want to see it and that's it. I mean, that's


great for the marketers, but it's going to be weird experience if you didn't opt in suddenly you're getting emails again from the same person who didn't opt in for. Yeah. I think. Well, that goes back to the that's a different in my my limited knowledge of it, that's a different that spanned laws a completely different situation than this. This is for for websites and cookies and emails, but. Everything basically is about saying, okay, we're our stance on


your privacy and the data that we have on you, and what we're willing to share or is now laid out in black and white. And you can have the opportunity to read it. But outside of that, the the way that you handle it, everyone, I think if you're reputable company, you have to just stand up at this point and offer up a new terms in our new t and see our new ULA and and have people opt into it. If if you don't, you run the risk of of running afoul, but I really I kind of expected this to blow over a month ago after the. The


Facebook are after soccer. Berg was on on Capitol Hill. And the fact that this now comrade came around a month later, it's like it's perpetually in our new cycle. I think the the energy for the. Audience, the American audience is kind of winning a little bit on it. We've kind of given up on really having any privacy of Franco, frankly, from everything that we've been talking about last week on the show and from everything that I've heard from people around the globe who listen to the program, it's it's not really


an issue that people were discussing. The general in the general audience out there is not interested in this subject. And I'm wondering Lisa, when I when you would tackled you'd unless sure what you had to do with your G d. P r. situation. I mean, it's dislike whether or not you had to. I think I heard Leo saying something like you ought to put 30 hours into taking care of your G d. P r. regulations and figuring this out, but. What what, what's your take on on the whole


situation with Mel files in keeping your your your user data as clean as possible? Are you concerned at this point, or do you feel much more encouraged by this latest news that you can just update your terms and conditions in everything will be fine? It was a scramble for us were small network, but the beauty of being a small technic- work is that we do not collect any data from our audience. So we did have to update our privacy policy that did take about 25 30 hours. We had to get the legal


acreage reviewed. I feel sorry for, you know, larger companies actually have to hire a compliance. Person to actually implement this. So if they had like if he gets over a hundred or 200 employees that parents have to have a full-time person. Overseeing it. So for us, it was fairly easy for us to update our privacy policy. We don't collect staff. The only thing we do is through you know, we have adopted newsletter so we had to address that. But you know, I'll be honest with you, if you ask any person on the street that's not like in my business or


your business, they don't care. They're just like, you know it. I figured I gave up my privacy when I got a cell phone because of the G p. S component I'm on Facebook and this and that, and everything else. So. That's kind of also my opinion is like. You know, people know where to find me if they want to. I think it created a lot of red tape for a lotta people that, yeah, we just pretty much updated our privacy policy. It took some navigation to go through and see what made sense for us. And then you know, we didn't do anything insane, so I kind of feel sorry for the people that dead.


But you know, if all you need to do is up to your privacy policy or your your terms and conditions and. Whatever you guys have been, I think that's pretty much all you need to tail. Well, it's been a fascinating time talking through these subjects, but it's time for the ad fell five now. But before we do that, I want to take this quick opportunity to thank my guests again and allow them to each to a shameless plug starting with calling glum you can find him@evert free That's the home


of a free Ginsburg where he is an executive director of digital. Tell us what's going on in your world, Colin, what would you like to promote? Well, since we were just talking about privacy insecurity, I've been working on a side project for a number of years called coal companies called pulled technologies. You can download it's an app that recognizes the people that you've met in real life and allows you to add them to your phone witches. It's happier finger. So perfect for people were at conventions, or conferences, or festivals of any


kind. I'm going to be in Cannes in two weeks and would love to meet people and have be able to exchange contact without the exchanging a thousand business cards, which I don't have to take back to New York and then manually enter. So if you download pull, I'd love to be able to exchange information with you on the Croat Muslim. Fantastic. And yes, I've been very aware of your your application in very interested in trying it out. So I will definitely take a look for Sloan Kelly. You can find her at the PGA tour dotcom. That's


the home of the tour where she is a vice president of content. Tell us what's going on in your world Sloan, what would you like to promote? Yeah, lots of stuff. My team has been super busy has always coming up with some great content. You can check it out at P g. A tour on all of the major social networks, and of course, our website and PJ And we do have a couple of open content creation positions right now. So I will certainly plug that if there might


be any folks out there that are interested in creating content around our game and our players. And the sounds great. Anybody out there. Definitely give Sloan a call center, your resume, and last, but not least. We have Lisa support. You can find her twit.t. V tell us what's going on in your worldly. So what would you like to promote? Well, I'd like to promote his law agency. I've been working with several brands and other sponsors on direct response campaigns,


and we're always looking for high integrity sponsors that want to reach a male tech savvy audience. That's, you know, their high income earners and it. If you have a brand that you really want to put out there than please reach out to me, you can get you can find me@least set to adopt t v or at least said artist lie agency dotcom. And as for me for information about me or the show visit the being there, you can find a complete show archive. You can find out how to consult with me, and you can even find out how to advertise in the program. So check it all out at the being cast a


common don't forget transcribe cast as your way to get a quick discount on transcription services. They are official transcription partner, and we now have transcriptions of all our shows. So check it out, transcribe coast. And now it's time for the ad fell five or run down of the lowest moments in advertising marketing in public relations from the last week. And first up Lisa MSNBC host joy read found out why old


blog posts are always a danger to keep her round. You know, with all this happening as much as it does, where people go back into a famous persons old blog posts and pull out the most egregious Commons, you'd figure the people would be cleaning up their past blog posts a little bit more judiciously but she did not. Did she. Now that was the first thing I thought of I'm like, oh, my gosh, were all young and dumb at some points in our lives. And we write things. Are we say, things that are not necessarily the most


appropriate thing? And a part of me is just like, why doesn't she have an assistant going through all of this stuff? I hope that you know she's learned in growth has grown from epithets. That's about all you can do. Because when you're young, you're going to say things may be that you'll regret later, and I always tell people, if you're going to say something that's really stupid, please don't back it up in writing. And if you deal and you can get rid of it, you should probably go through old blog posts and take things down. Or I mean it's a little bit of cleansing goes a long way. [laughter]. Well, next


up Roseanne gets racist with a spectacular flame out, oh my God Sloan, this is so cringe worthy to actually compare an African American to an ape while you're you're delivering a crazy ran on Twitter mean, what did you think was going to happen? Oh my God, this was brutal. I have to say though the the response from Sanofi because she claimed that Ambien of course, was the reason for this.


This ran on Twitter, but that company actually called out that racism isn't among their side effects and on point spectacular. No Cohen Ciller actually, I've loved to jump it on that because the response from the network was equally I mean authoritative fast and I couldn't believe how quickly that went down. Super, super proud of them for because I was actually a pretty well received received show. Oh yeah, cost. Their


costumes are coming back. Yeah, cost them millions and millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue, making that decision. So yeah, definitely. Definitely a hard day at A b. C next up Samantha be lost a few advertisers over her calling. Von could Trump affect loose seaward colon. You know, I understand the anger and I understand the desire to go after a vodka trauma, but it seemed a little bit agree just to


do that on a T v. network. What's your take on this? I mean, it obviously caused a lot of advertiser anxiety. Yeah, for sure. And I feel like it's slightly misdirected to that degree. Maybe, you know, speaking to her husband would be her about her husband would be just as effective if not more appropriate. So yeah, I I feel. Torn about this one because there's the you shouldn't really be. There's no need to be that base, I guess,


without especially in the forum that you have. But if you want to do, especially being cement the be in the articulate nature that she has and how creative she can be. I think there's a lot of other way she could have handled it in a little bit more diplomatic instilled on our point across without having to raise so much higher point taken. But I also I can't say that I'm surprised that advertisers would turn their back on our because of the the kind of crass use of the wording. But she did supposedly different where in the u k for some reason. But here,


it's it's very from on. Agreed agreed. Next up, British railway company teams link compared the recent service outages to being less Godiva, more pound Lynn shock. It referring to see this again more pound Lind chocolate. Referring to the U k. discount store pound wind. Powell and of course turned around and issued the mother of all smacked two homes in return, which Sloan was just


classic. They're going after them and said, you know, it's like something to the effect that we've we've never had anybody be late making dinner [laughter]. Their exchange was everything I I loved the British humor that is just coming through a not response from bound land and ultimately telling Thames linked to remove their post or to face the consequences with I think what they called their twitchy legal team back. It was


very funny. And last but not least John this come from a couple of weeks ago, I can't believe I forgot to put it on a previous show German sweep maker super dick men that alone is worth a good laugh. Celebrated the recent re- the recent Royal wedding in spectacularly bad taste with an ad featuring a chocolate covered marshmallow. In a wedding dress. Lisa, I c- I don't even have words for this one. It's so bad.


I I just wonder like his checking their work product these days. I can't imagine with our like zero tolerance me to, you know, and I also kudos for taking down the road Sancho. There's just no tolerance for any of this anymore, but a part of me is like, how did they added nobody see that and how how did this get messed? It just makes me wonder whose really checking. They've been caught doing things like this before that have been accused of racism. So I kind of feel like company management is


complicit on this think, oh, it's completely okay. We will make an odd in ruby likeness [laughter]. Terrible. Yeah. We'll have something to add to this list or just want to discuss it. Comment on line, use the hash tag, add fell five. Let's pound add fell in the number five. Well, that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this pod cast visit our website at the being Costa are common click on the subscribe link. If you're Nigerians listener, we've also provided a direct link to the eye teens music store, or


just search for the being cast in the pod cast directory of vitamins, and whichever broadcast directory you use when you subscribe, please leave observe. You got a comment of a question. We'd love to hear from you, just injured emails to being cast a female dotcom opening theme was performed by Joseph Cambell closing theme by sea jacks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob, nor will be back again next week. Hope you'll join us then.


I was going to say checkless fun, but I didn't pull the trigger on it. [laughter]. See if she is just a bad deal. I would have gone on e- cope with a gun in the other direction.


Cool beans.