BeanCast Transcripts

BeanCast 499 Transcript

BeanCast 499: Shooting in the Dark and Tapasing

Date: 12-Jun-2018

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Bandwidth with provided by recursive squirrel, interactive transcription services provided by transcribing dotcom visit them on the web@transcribed me dotcom sluggish being cast for up to twenty-five percent off. That's me dotcom episode 499 shooting in the dark and tapestry.


For Monday, June 11th 2000 key it's time for this week's edition of the being cast a weekly discussion about the news of issues facing marketers today. Thanks for joining


us. Instagram is doubling down on video weaving many wondering what the ultimate plan really is you? They plan on becoming a produce content channel. Is this simply another way to keep users posting? Can the compete in both arenas? Tonight will discuss also the double edged sword of streaming, t v direct to consumers, move away from Facebook, using employees as influencers, plus this


week's Advil villefort. That's the lineup. Lets me tonight. Thanks for joining us for this week's being cast on Bob north and with me on the panel for this evening, we start with pope contributor author, speaker and creative consultant, Mr. den gold guy or Dan. Hey, how are ya? Good, Bob, thank you for having me back on the show. It's always a pleasure pleasures


mine. No, also with three of the marketing capabilities director for global marketing marketing excellence at the Campbell Soup company, mister Samuel money, Sam, you'd like the coolest title. Thanks for having me back and yes, the more you can say excellence in my presence, that happier I get [laughter] love doing it. And finally we say Hello to strategy director for content marketing advisory services at news spread miss little family will welcome back. Frankie


Bob, thanks to have any shame. Pretty excited. I can't wait to get started. I do wanna make one quick sad note for people who listen to the show for a long time. One of our long time, long ago participants Daryl or he's been battling cancer for quite a while. That's why he hasn't been on the program. He's been busy taking care of himself and his family. While he passed away this Saturday. So our hearts and our thoughts go out to his family until all the


people who loved him, including one person who was scheduled to be on the show this week. Bill green was scuttled to beyond, but took off because it's pretty broken up, go Daryl and he were co authors. Along with Angela Nativity on a book generation creation, so. Anyway, hearts and minds out to them, but let's get into the topics right away. First up, Instagram has revealed plans to deliver long form higher production value video content via their


platform, potentially radically transforming what their service is all about. First though Sam, before we tackle what all this means, let's address the who, specifically, who is this targeted a targeted against competitively speaking? I mean, are we talking about a competitive move against snapshot and their content feature? We talking about a competitive move of against YouTube. Is it a little bit of both? What? What's your take on that? You know what I think the as I looked into this


story of the cruise. If he if you had bad even before you who they're fighting over their attacking, I just think the is a clear that the more detailed longer stories you just generate engagement and that's not currently possible so that they're not offering something that the audience is a clamor in full and where audience is going. So as I get longer in the tooth in the digital digital space, unless old school as I see how brands differentiate and you're making a strong case for it being


against both because that's something that both YouTube and snapshot heaven spades over Instagram, Instagram may have a greater posts, greater usage, more people checking in on an ongoing basis. But snapshot Chad has the king is king of the hill in terms of the amount of hours that people spend on it. But that's not about content, is it? That's that's not about long form content. That's more about the fact that you're checking messages from friends. What I'm what I'm saying


is that the long form content game is is king right and video instead was bit more short, the images and fighters, and short, short form, and now the shortfall videos, but storytelling is is just what's huge in culture. There's a cultural anthropologist grant McCracken and I was at an event of his the other day in New York called culture camp and the the the phenomenon of storytelling, the phenomenon of long form


via is just exponentially growing. I think in in the old days or a few years ago, you co- you have this thing called binge watching which is seen as like negative United's couch potatoes, fast food. And actually his work says, this is not binge. And he's actually feasting these high quality. This is storytelling. This is narrative in search. I do think in culture. This is huge. And sorry, if you just put the you know, the culprit. And because he just in culture, storytelling is huge, and you can't do that with Lee offering that they have right


now. So they can't do what people want more of em wants describing in culture. And then you add on just the the culprit element of, wow, what power this gives them the content. It opens up this the the potential for brands to be part of it, the potential for musicians to be part of it. The potential for movie makers and story storytellers to be there. They they kind of only playing with five percent of the possiblity now used to open it up so much. You say that, but then you go and you look at what? Facebook dead, I mean Facebook, the


parent company of Instagram. They tried to do video and its not doing all that. Well, I mean, little weighing in on this. What's your what's your take on the situation? Are they are they really competing against effectively by this move competing against snapped Chatters this more move against YouTube because the. The pundits out there in the press or kind of divided on which move is more pertinent to them. Yeah, I mean, I think that it's actually competing with buddy found.


You got the likes of cheap. And Katy things influences there. They trying to capture that market, right? But they also have all the faces of of snap chat, say, from a pretty smart me, what do they do? They really have all this, the features of snapshot. Because again, snapshot is more about you check it because you're checking messages from friends. I mean, yes, people go to celebrity feeds and they watched the content. Yes, they watch some longer form


discovery content that's on the platform. But ultimately, most of the time when the platform is spent checking messages from friends, and that's something that you really don't get on Instagram, Instagram is much more about connecting with. People who you admire and follow in one of a you know, see what they're doing, and see what kind of content they're creating. So that feels to me much more like a a value proposition from YouTube than it does from snapshot. I think the lines of


glaring, there also about testing the dead. They can't do this the latest about potential. They sending that Facebook stock materially high as well untempted diversifying. The potential of appetizing un- un- un- un- snap chat site. For me, as I on Instagram, say. Yes, actually it's it's the same thing as a spaceman market.


Trust is a rating on by Egypt on and on Facebook say, let's see what we can do, uninstall them. Yeah. Yeah. I tend to agree with that because they think that, you know we're going to talk a little bit later about Facebook in the trust issues are having in the end the problem, they are the problem, they're having, keeping keeping up brands, happy though this might be off the defensive move by Facebook did because they own Instagram is to get on and


offer more dynamic video offerings to advertisers. And that would make a lotta sense because I mean it's in a lotta ways. We try to tackle these these moves by the social platforms based on what the users one, but ultimately the decisions. The calculus the goes on Sam is what's this gonna do for advertisers? And I'm wondering, does this present to you as an advertiser, the opportunities that you're looking for


to utilize Instagram more effectively to get more eyeballs to get people paying attention to your promotions? Is this going to satisfy those needs? I can't talk to the company because I don't wear the hat, and I don't have that role as a as a pundit. Yeah. I think you know. As as marketers we wanted, if wearing a mocking hat, we want to connect with our consumers when and where. The most receptive and Instagram definitely has a


proposition this winning and so this for me is I think to the other folks on here. There is a convergence happening and you can argue from a corporate sort of business perspective high. This is just at maximizing your audience and your you know, your size of your, your business. But also there's something happening is something in the either where this this aspect of video is becoming so compelling that everyone has to be part of it. So whatever your business model, I'm seeing this coming together as the you know this, this consumer behavior, this


odious behavior is is pulling so many different industries into into being better this which is great for the consumer up, but then threw the business perspective. Absolutely. If your China get to your audience, you want as many great possibilities as possible. That helps you drive your business goals and business ambition. I just coming from the personal level is just my wife. My wife is a huge. The race issue cheap, watch in her her perspective is actually if he's going to work, you're going to have to fix it,


fix the u x for insta- and to make it in the same league. So. It's not a slam dunk that they're getting to actually is going to work for them. They're going to have to deliver a proposition that the the audiences. Love otherwise, they could be damaging they brand, they could be actually alienating people are now at the end of the day, you know, the advertisers may. May not stick around, so this is not a guaranteed success and the fact that the owners have not necessarily succeeded in in on the face. The platform tells you that it's it's not


easy, and it's not guaranteed, sir, as a pungent I'm watching this with eagerness but it's going to happen. They everyone's trying to win the battle for eyeballs in sales and profit. In the end, there's there's definitely a move toward creating video for the mobile platform, and that's the thing we always have to remember when we're talking about Instagram is Instagram does not exist on the desktop to this day. I mean it it. There is a desktop way to look at your content, but essentially the only way to participate in the


platform into actively engaged on the platform is to be on a mobile device. Yet at the same time, we have all these players trying to split harassing, a move from them, the mobile device, and from the desktop to the living room. And I'm wondering, is this coming a little bit Laden a little bit slow little. I mean it's you know if if you've got YouTube trying to make this big move into the living room and you've got Facebook, even with their core product with their video platform trying to move into the


living room, Twitter is trying to move into the living room. Is this going to be enough for them to provide a mobile device only video experience? And is it going to be competitive enough for advertisers? Now, I mean, it's all it's about being every way say it makes sense for them to try to be in the living room beyond the devices day at work. For me, it it it only things like.


Sitting in the dock right at the moment out, there's a lot of confusion, especially with the big. They clapped phones. They had Amy's skating crisis having a letter consumer trust on. Being challenged and for me it's it's essentially than trying t- reengaged with the use of ice. And it's it's pretty challenging at the moment. So I don't know the answer to that.


I deny that they need to try something different. You know, I'm just I'm choosing right now to believe that you just said shooting in the dark because it's your sounded like something else to me [laughter] Pakistan and accent [laughter]. My goodness. Well, then I want to get your take on the aspect of, is this more about becoming like T v. or is this about changing the dynamics of social sharing for the platform?


Because one of the things that when you when you get into the longer form content fifteen minute why we produce content, you're talking about. You know, some serious money in some serious effort being poured into the production values in order to raise it up to a certain standard. Is that is that meeting the core need of the platform? Does the the platform become a content sharing platform, or does the con- continue as a content sharing platform, or is it more important for it to be a delivery


of premium content for its users to stay engaged with? Yeah, it's a very good question because I think we're going to have to see. How this plays out in terms of what gets. What you know, how long form are we talking about? Because I mean, you're talking about fifteen minute, you're talking about the kind of extended stuff we see on on television. But you know what I think of wanna form video for brands I think of you know, six minute and seven minute and eight minute profiles and and


things that I don't know. There are that long form necessarily. So the I think it's going to be it's going to depend on who makes it good advantage of this, because if it starts becoming fifteen minutes or even 20 minutes, half an hour, then your then you're talking Instagram is trying to be a bigger platform for. For for programming because it gives the reports are saying, hey, you know, up to fifteen minutes. And then his report saying analysis we got he dumped night.


If they land places to the allies, the teeth, it's it's you know, Instagram T v. right, that's what that's what they've becoming. And now be placing over his shorter will maybe that China pass out a small component. But. At the end of the day, if it seems like more and more of these organizations of behaving like to meet your organizations, which is audience eyes, I selling adds. It's they're just big. Media to the channels and platforms and. My guess


I'm the great predicted my guess is that they're going to go along the route in the shelter because you've got more formats there and you've just got content. You can now stream episodes of the all of the office on on Instagram because you can unite. You'll structurally you're pulling people into two immersing your content beyond just dis. Perhaps more transient content say you become like the net flicks is in all the other platforms. That's to me, that's a huge opportunity. And then you bring the produces in the creators of that quality in that. Now,


if you are on the rise or a midfield filmmaker, whatever plan for these platforms. Thank you so much more choice. But then so radical departure from who they are. And I'm not saying that's wrong. I mean, it's just like, but they are not prepared for that because they are mobile only plot for him that's designed for user sharing content, and now you're talking about radically transforming it. And I'm wondering, will the users come along with it or those say we've already got you too. The fair, go ahead and I'm going to go ahead.


I was going to say, you have to be very careful of feature creek because all of these social networks have done that, and the more becomes commercialized. It's very likely that people will look for a new alternative if it's not what they remembered being. I don't know about you guys, but as a as a tendency to put it on on the panel, I would love to get to a single source of trade and have all my content, whether that straining the latest episode of the Walking Dead or whatever old taking out my fate, I think that would be


ideal situation. Whether they will move towards this kind of more radical, like long fold. The Saudi content, I would welcome that. I think from a marketing perspective, you want to make sure that you are bringing people along awful that Janney and making sure that you are responding to their needs, say, like a bit of a push and pull. You want to be a little bit ahead of everyone wants battle scientists that they might be pushed back if he if you move too fast and we will,


we always bring this up every time. One of the social platforms radically changes of does something we say, will the user stand for it in the user come along for whatever they may find interesting and compelling. So I mean, I don't think that the push back I mean, because there is in doubt there's undoubtedly going to be pushed back from this from the start of this, I just don't know the it's going to matter much. I think my biggest concern about this is not whether the users will follow all follow along its, whether or not the prepared the lead, the users down the right


path. And I think that's where the the major problem is they're they're existing in a space that doesn't allow for the kind of mass video sharing that goes on. I mean, you know they they're just not prepared for it, need neither a snapshot for that matter, you know. So. Insolent look worse snapshot is in terms of their their profitability in their stock price. I mean, there there are experiencing all kinds of problems because they're not position for the least Instagram has the backbone of


what's going on with Facebook. And maybe that's the end all be all is, you know they're looking at creating another outlet for Facebook video as opposed to creating something that's independently. Instagram, I mean, who knows? You know, it's just like, this is all speculation at this point. Well, I want to move on I'm going to talk next about the double edged sword of streaming T v. were on the subject of T v. gain content migration to the online platforms in. I thought I boy, I'm doing a terrible


job transitioning to this topic. Please let me start again. [laughter] was streaming. Numbers are through the roof ring. The keep growing, leading a whole lot of people to confirm their belief that the future of T v. advertising is online as opposed to being a broadcast or on cable. But then there are rumbles of problems that I believe need to be addressed, namely the targeting is still pretty spotty. Users are realizing the cost of Allah card programming and realizing it's much higher than


doing a simple cable subscription in users expect add free experiences when they're forced to pay. So how do we navigate all this going forward and still believe that the future of television advertising is on a streaming platform earnest, streaming bases, your take. Yeah, I'm going to solve this right now. I've got all the answers. Yes. We're in an age of abundance, and the reality is consumers can't have it all, and marketers


can't have it all streaming is taking off because the quality of the programming amazingly good. I mean, if you talk to any body, they've everyone's got to show their hooked on. That is on some platform that didn't exist. You know, a generation ago and ended in like I think lives that they're hard to find. I mean, there, you know, I think consumers want simplicity and I think the going to choose that. You know, in terms of the Allah carte programming. I think we can see a shakeout gonna come I don't know how many, how the market's going to


support all these different services like the lose and the slinky bees, and and direct T v. though it's just I mean yes because I mean there's competition always been a certain amount of competition when it comes to them, the aggregating platforms. But now you have over the top solutions from every single network trying to get a little piece of the pie, and that's not just becomes incredibly prohibitively expensive over time. And users are going, why don't we just go back to cable? I mean,


I really believe with coming for for sure on that end. Let me I really I really believe that we're going to end up in a situation over the next couple years where consumers are gonna go. Why did we cancel cable in the first place? Cable gives us a great package of lots of different shows. Let's just go back. The cable and cable will be better than ever. I mean, it's possible and if it's finished, he is smart. They will do whatever they can to keep people from unplugging altogether in slimming down their packages and


making it at least minimum affordable under what the smallest one is. I happened to subscribe to expand to get a lot of channels. So I pay a lot anyway. But I think that they if they're smart, they're going to dig in a you know, realize that people do want a lot of options. In terms of what the programming that they can get. You know, and this is in we have an injected marketers into the conversation yet, but you know,


I think that as far as marketers go, they're going to have to decide if specific down to the individual targeting on these video networks is truly worth it. Because if, like you said, it's spotty the the data spotty and if it ever gets reliable, it's going to be expensive. And yeah, and I think the other thing to keep in mind is that T v. in this model becomes programatic, and we already know what the issues of programatic advertising are in the banner world. I mean, we talked about this on the program


before just recently in fact, last couple of weeks. The fact is programatic television is gonna be replete with all the same problems that regular programatic advertising has been existing with. And that doesn't solve anything, it makes it makes the add value go down and the effectiveness reduces well. And that's that's a problem for advertisers in something that I don't think a lot of people who are predicting the future of advertising in the streaming platforms of even considered.


Sam your take on all this. I mean, while you know I was I think she said stuff before. There's an I'm listening as compensation. My head hurts. It's getting caught it. And I am not even wear my expert where semi or whatever. What do I do? Where do I just want my staff wise? It's so hot there. I think the irony is. Everything we describing is now mocked his dream right? Because someone's gonna have to solve it in a way that make the D complex if I simplifies and gives me more of what I want the way I wanted at the


moment, it seems to be. Everyone's jumping in they creating all this stuff and pulling out their platforms in charge you for it said you want everything you want is now going to cost you four times as much as he used to hang on a minute. Why did I leave? What? Why did I stop doing? What? So I think the whole industry is a bit. I think that's a perfect storm because it's becoming ever more competitive barriers to entry at a dropping. And you know, the products are coming into the marketplace, which are even better. So someone's going to take a step back and find a solution, whether


it's the traditional cable companies, or whether it's the one password solution thing, whether it's a some other subscription model. I doubt now if I eat out when I'm going to, I'm going to continue to play devil's advocate here. It's like when I look at the numbers. We've got a net flicks not turning a profit because they're investing so mud and billions of dollars in creating content, and they're running second 3rd year reruns as far as the rest of their content. Then you've got Hulu, which is getting the


first run content from all the for most of the networks of not all of them. And that's got a low subscriber base. I mean, the numbers on that were like shocking how low the subscriber bases on who, and how low the new subscriber acquisitions going. Then you've got things like C b. S interactive, you know C b. S all access and that's having problems that said the network level that's causing all kinds of issues because that's not getting the same kind of support, nor is it turning a profit. You've got


each b. O now, which is also just experiencing tremendous church churn because people come in for the one program Benjamin, and then they're gone, and I'm just seeing over and over again. This model that was so touted as being the future of television is just not working and it's not working for anybody. You can sing net flicks is tremendously popular in its it's tremendously powerful. But there. Even they have chinks in the armor


and I don't see how it's sustainable over time a little. Do you agree with me? Do you have a Ray of sunshine to shine into this Muslim? I'm talking from the island, the agency, not and I watch. If he Sharon fan even the bad ones. It's almost like we had to take some responsibility as it was considered like way like this hungry mass fat once the latest t v show a one, a binge watch all this. And


then so much of the fact that some of the networks have to release his hostages. United ones. I'm talking about right pot one of the last days and I'm like, I want the full phase in autumn one at all that I think it's I think we do have to take some responsibility. He had like a vase to the bottom when it comes to quality and think that it's going to be a breaking point for both parties where consumers you I really adept at filling out filtering three things. I don't want bull


end up choosing one of the tales three channels. And then on the other side of the. Of the of the table will have people actually going, okay, well, you can eat, have quality content. All you can have a lot of lot of content that sub par. But where is the where is the advertiser good fall into this though? That's my big question because it's like if you're paying for every single one of the subscription services has an option to pay a little bit and get all the ads out.


And you know, if it least has that if not, there's no ads people expect that. If you're paying a subscription for content, you shouldn't have advertising. So where do we exist? The premium great content that the we we want to advertise against. Has a price tag attached to it that's keeping advertising out. And then for the rest of the ones that are ad supported, you have the lower strength, the lower level of content, and you're able to run ads against, you know, basically the


crap or the second run reruns. You know. So. That doesn't sound like a good solution Samuel trying to jump. I'm sorry. I swear to you. We've been we've been in this movie for because you know, Brian, I obscene articles coming up now about branded entertainment and now you know, the power is haunt the cheapen integrations is is now, sir, I think everything in everything's on the table. Every and the problem for us is that the technology is broken all the rules, but we haven't figured out how to play with it easily. Fair. If I'm from the producer


side of the contents side, I'm trying to get my stuff out there, and I now have say much more choice. And if I'm from the brand side, there are so many more opportunities to get my message out there because apparently people don't watch advertising. And then from the consumers hide. I'm going to I'm allowed to feasting taxing I can I can get everything pets [laughter]. This is the double entendre show with lots of words that are sounding very funny [laughter] back and you see, oh my goodness, this is a mess. And so I again,


I don't have this, I feel, but this is this is the is the era where someone like an apple where they bring design to solve. A sameness or complexities of who can simplify this experience. And I don't know whether it's the heritage companies, whether it's the content providers, whether it's the movies, music, CDs, or whether it's the brands. And I'm just thinking, you know, when prince was he he said the internet was dead when he started selling his music directly on, then we evolved into apple music now spotted by and now spotty


fire. Like connecting with the branch of this. The old rules are gone and everyone is still is trying to play by all the rules. I don't know which are the new rules of today, right? But it's clear that. The status quo, the current situation is now becoming the status quo. It's not it's not sustainable. You can't have 27 different streaming options in 25 different subscriptions and you because you can't you ending up playing four times more than you used to. And then because he was angered, I'm gonna I'm not paying for all this, and then we'll get back to probably pri- piracy and pirating of people getting


breaks. So all of this just seems like the same movies happening every five years. You can take a step back and actually come up with a compelling proposition that can help us organizer say, I think we've got enough brains on this on this panel, perhaps even in the audience to kind of figure cells out made we can solve it because it's it's it's breaking but that I have solved the its cable cable works is exam. Can I ask you Sam? Can I ask you a question without getting into trouble when knowing that this may not be your hat? You work for a very


classic marketer. I mean a worldwide global brand. What are you guys doing? In terms of adjusting your media mixed for this. Yeah, yeah, I am going to cheat by saying it's only understanding your consumer and the journey. So well, you be so soup. Wooden stand trick and solving the main Lebanese in solving their problems. And if you truly understand that than you can win and sir than it takes us at the fastest fundamentals of marketing, sir. I answer it


with really how well you good marketing and understanding the fundamentals, because few jump into if you try and be possible this, it's chaos, it's chaotic. It's impossible to understand. And we just have the conversation about is to becoming more music. Is it more like snap or is it more like in our YouTube? And it's like, I wanted to stay is if you imagine from the brand side on the sideline, that's why areas such as branded entertainment, coming to the boy's let you know, let me


control what I can control and be ultimate that and actually I can win during that. You guys can all create your chaos over there, but I can still drive [laughter]. I think it is now better time than ever to be really good at the fundamentals. But it's all contextual, right. Depends on your consume in your audience, and I watch all this. I'm realizing that we're making or whatnot. We the industry, all these industries are making a mess for consumers. And if you're doing that, then they're gonna they're gonna you're going to lose them. And the and Bobby, you just hit maybe the


cable. And if the answer is that then guess what they will because they they kind of being in the background will not be in the background. You know they're they're waiting to take advantage. And I know a lot of these companies are making moves, and I know this I love open as Asia's a coloured Hulu and things like that. So I I just think. Some one, some one or two people are going to about two pounds, and I do want to do when wanna caveat that. I'm not talking about cable as it exists because I think the cable does need to evolve to a certain extent. And I I've been seeing some interesting models like 8 18


tease purchase of direct T v. has led to them creating an app vase solution for mobile customers who can then take this up, put it on their apple T v. put it on the rope, coup and stream their cable over the internet connection. So it takes eighteen tea out of the internet business, the internet and cable bundle business, and puts them firmly into the content streaming network business as an option for their customers. And it's


it's it's not perfect, but it's it's pretty darn good and it's portable with you. And I think that's the most important thing. I think that's what consumers are looking for, more than anything is the portability of their content. If I'm traveling the LA I can stream my home T v. on my eye pad because I've got this app that connects to my eighteen t- direct now direct now lap. So I mean, that kind of solution that kind of thinking needs to happen, but ultimately, it still comes back to


cable works. These aggregate deals work, and that's what customers one they want to have something that's economical and gives them all the different shows that they're looking for in this is the solution for doing it. Well, I think I've just stop having obviously eat it. You don't need us [laughter] question. So eloquently, what are we chopped liver or what? Well, you've done well, you've done well, my friend, but we got to move onto the next topic. Direct to


consumer advertisers have been the poster children for everything that is amazing about Facebook advertising. So it's somewhat surprising to see many direct to consumer brands. Polling spin from the social Jain in favor of more traditional media choices. Things like billboards, things like television, things like you, believe it or not print so little what's going on here and do we need to learn something from all of this as advertisers? It's like back to the feature stuff,


right? Guilt bullets and t v ads. I'm look, I I really feel that the brands, especially the new one starting out. And yet secret tricky, tight, right? That they have to walk, right? Half degenerate. This brand awareness while actually canning enough profit to pay for that brand awareness. I didn't know it if if a tough 1 and unfamiliar I think it some states are finding it really hot cuts very because essentially the bidding


anybody and everybody that wants to compete for that space, right? Say where they like selling bedouin or sneakers or the facts. And also as a form of advertising, it's become less effective because less inventory, which means they see P m. prices increase. And of course that means at impressions gay down. I don't get involved in the day of add add buying, but I'm not surprised that they thinking about all they already meeting to other


vehicles for advertising on surprised. That meeting offline advertising. Which has the all night more expensive, and it's also hard to measure that I work in the digital space site. For me, I wait a minute, wait a minute. It's not necessarily harder to measure because we've been doing direct marketing in traditional media for ages, and we were able to measure it down to the exact person we're moving. Yeah, we can't tell. Does this add get a hover? Does it


get your eyeballs? You know what I mean? But we can tell if you call the 800 number that we specifically assigned to this particular billboard, know how effective this billboard is against that billboard. There are lots of tricks that advertisers have used for ages that help us to measure the effectiveness of the ads that were running. So. In a lotta ways, it makes sense. And also from a standpoint of the cost parameter. Yeah, I did. Facebook was the cheap option. Now, face work is not a cheap option


in billboards are pretty darn cheap because there are struggling. So. Direct to consumer goes to where the cheap advertising is, and where the highest engagement level is and where the most responses. That's why you have infomercials running a to a. In the middle of the night for 20 minutes, stirring your your super soaker what wrong wrap up up up up up. I. Sorry, go ahead. I think that a golden era of Facebook advertising is gone at a lesson here that you should always look for ways to amplify will advertise.


Beyond. You know, one platform, you can't just rely on that one type onto drive found a winner saving conversion. Say I think it just depends on your goal with the type of resources you have rights. Say. Let me it. It doesn't make sense to stick to the one. The one class only need only channel strategy. Absolutely, if you're going to grow, you need to find you know, even the audiences that isn't that aren't on on Facebook necessarily like I'm getting direct mail from


war b Parker and getting direct mail from casper you know, all these brands that have made a big niche online. So you know, and I think it's just part of the natural, the natural cycle, a bit of that they want to grow. They've gotta go find all the people who aren't familiar with them. This is called doing marketing well [laughter]. I don't know if you remember the rocky running out, the rocky sticks on I live in Philly, right? And then turning round of putting his 5th sub, Bob was an we're we're old describing


doing marketing. Well, that is the irony of all this. It's like, oh, no face, but he's getting closer than pricing is increasing. Oh no, I don't have an competence in enough to do other stuff is like, yeah. And. You know, nice shit Sherlock. The sea marketing well and. What it's all about winning wet my best. Reach my consumers and how do I get to them? That's doing marketing well, and sir, I think the me why I'm celebrating is that some of these paint points in these


experiences of narrative that the stories I used to be at to set it and forget it on Facebook. But now I can't do that anymore. Oh, no worries. Me again, that is doing marketing well and marketing is work people. And if you understand that and advertising his workpeople then only the assemblies in this field, like probably listen to this laughing laughing at the context because it just means you just have to be a great market that you can't just. Have some great idea and just say, I must technology look at me. I'm awesome all the pain points that is


being described in articulated and winning with consumers, understanding Ulysses understanding which in my private you old the odious is what does the inside hammock? And I'm not that opportunity from eyebrow was my brand samples who is still relevant and differentiated him, and how am I going to measure stuff? You know, much metrics a fundamental to everything you do in both saying every time every other week I'm listening is yes. I used to do see our D tyrant marketing. We know all this stuff. Why do people think they just reinventing some? You will be okay [laughter]. Just go and read the


old books in the in a thing called on my breaks. Get off the infant, go to pick up some of this stuff, and you'll have schools of thought that your brand. Because I think if you're if you've come through sort of two or three years of marketing, I've lost 20 or 30 40 years. If you've got more gray hair, you are ready for this moment. This moment is absolutely yours because you've seen it or you've done it all. Now. Help me. I don't know how to what is a billboard? Why should I do that? It's like, okay, I can help you with that. And so you know, I I was listening to port cost. The other day


and it. On that they were talking about health and fitness, and I realized that I was just driving home from work, and I realized the transition from home from work to home. Is is is huge. And if someone understood, I am now open to some before or after I'm just my world. And my mind is that 20 minute drive home is when I'm most receptive to a new idea or to something you'll selling all solution for my needs. Understanding that is an art and a science. Those are the fights who will come to the


fore in this world because they will be better be able to solve the business challenges in a business problems. So I pull it out of the the a Facebook specific issue, and I just say, hey, this is doing marketing well and I'll get off my soapbox [laughter]. Well, well said before we move off the topic though, I do wanna talk a little bit about Facebooks reputation as an ad seller. I mean, is this ultimately good for them down or is this bad for them to be seen as well because they they built their


bread and butter on these direct to consumer brands, and now they're putting all their eggs in the the big brand basket. They're trying to attract the marquee names into the into the mix as far as advertising are the big brands gonna come is is good for them to be seen as this high priced competitor in the ad landscape. If it all comes down to AURELIA, if they think they can get their money's worth, the brains don't big. Brands, don't measure our


away from advertising unless they have something specifically to sell. I mean, they're talking more about metrics like view a views and eyeballs in how much brand impression and brand lift you get. I mean, it's as a whole different set of metrics that are involved with that, and it's doesn't really doesn't really lead after their strong point is if they think that that's not what if you can't measure it too well, then then you've got you've got big issues. People want to know whether spending is going.


Sam anything you can add to that. I mean, it's just like, does Facebook. Actually risked their entire reputation as an ad cellar doing allowing this this creep to happen in allowing the direct to consumer brands to fly away and go to other media's or is this just the natural progression as they fly away? The prices come down and then they'll come flying back. Yes, a marketplace. So I think you know, if you are, if you are a lot of these brands tend to be the challenge. They are the challenge of brand.


They are disrupting the market place in sight. If you're a bigger and more traditional brand. You are not sad that they are complaining that it's getting harder and prices ago, and we're going to have to dig enough to try and use billboards or hot air balloons or whatever these things off for the first time. Those bigger more traditional brands up as a site laughing because guess what we know how to do that stuff. It's kind of in auto kit, sir, you'll these brands are pulled off their natural turf. And in two arenas where they feel


less comfortable or less confident all you know, they don't have all the matrix. And now the. They are struggling to figure out what what other relevant measures and maybe understanding a bit more. The are of creativity and influence in persuasion and created becomes perhaps even more important to them. All of that stuff. I think if you are traditional bridal company or you'll find with, sir. Ultimately, my answer to everything is not digital, right? And as a marketer I'm I'm sometimes you're in environments where everything has to be digital.


Otherwise people aren't listening. And here if you will be more balanced in, you're thinking and again, understand the consumer so well in that journey said, well, you know when and where to show up to sell to meet their needs and took delight them. That isn't. Facebook, that isn't digital, that isn't that automatic answer. And that for me is if that's what that's what I took away from from this and center. As they say, the big brands. They are dealing with that complexity. I think the brand's we should never had to immersed in that field a now Phoenix and the pain of modern marketing


and they actually should do because what they will, we will try to win. Well, finally, other topic list Macy's launched in atypical influence our campaign, focusing on employees opinions rather than the opinions of internet stars and celebrities, which kind of got me wondering, Dan, should more companies be leveraging their employees as frontline influencers, and what does that look like? Yeah, I think it's a great idea as long as the the employees are not coerce to do it at the sound like hostages


[laughter] because the folks are doing it with me. You know, we have to imagine that the people who work at Macy's or some, some of them and do this program, they think of themselves as fashion or fashionable, and the perhaps their friends look at them. Look at them that way. You know, it doesn't solve Macy's bigger problems being, you know, a mid-tier retailer in this world, but it does bring a more personal connection. You know to a brand that isn't. On the level of let's say an Nordstrom or


or fast fast fashion retailer like Zara, but you know, people wanna have pride in the company they worked for and you know it's so rare these days that might be more of a breakthrough, but is it more effective you know, because it's when you get. We always use the example of the celebrities like Kim car dash in and forget all the celebrities, so I'm just going to leave it at that moment. I mean, you know, you talk about those types of recommendations in your suddenly reaching. 10 million 50 million people over the


course of a month or two in your getting lots of impressions that are potentially valuable for your brand. So it's a whole different ballgame when you're talking about a a local store clerk or a person who's working in the shoe department, writing a blogger posting pictures on an Instagram account. It's entirely different, but with a break but with a brand like Macy's, when you've got so many local location, you know it spread out across the country. You know, maybe somebody is more influential in their community and in


it, and it has a much more personal connection. And yet the numbers are not as massive. But. You know, you may find a deeper connection that way because I think that while employee and eating customers, my fast session network of CEO typical influence sound like compassion type actual like peer to peer word of mouth indorsement and it's authentic and also not


forced. It is actually more valuable to me. It depends on what your business calls Iraq for me, influence influence, and it can't be scaled automated. If an organic relationship in need, identify. Who your target audience can this to be influential and then doing these relationships at a day? You'll an employee either whether they customers or external influences outside of of the brand say,


I think it depends on finding out what the best fit isn't. Doesn't necessarily being. Mean, I can I can see that because it's it's not necessarily about trying to get an impression or to make sure that you have the reach. The you would get with a celebrity influence or it's more about that personal connection. I'm just wondering how that actually translates in the field. I mean, were were speculating because I'm not actually seeing this campaign. I'm not actually


seeing what exactly they're doing, but I do realize that the store clerk is the frontline person. I say, store clerk, whatever the, the the shoes, sales person or the dress saleswoman news in in particular department at that particular time. I mean, if they're if they're creating a micro celebrity and they're able to maybe share content of customers together with salespeople mean that could potentially create a great experience. And as we


always say in a brand is only made up of a chain of good experiences and chaining good experiences together is the. Is the goal of any good brand? Go ahead, said it was going to say, employees as advocates in the brain of Basset disease, is is a thing and always will be right? So I know that some companies will have privacy illegal free speech concerns that after being mindful of how they help you do more of this. But they absolutely. And. The experiences offending


experiences of the shared, and we've seen them all on blogs and in and on reviews and on. I think reviews of the classic ones and then an older social spacer. They sing it. It's always been happening, and so I don't think this is really a story. This is out there if you can. I just think of bad brands, maybe like a Patagonia or Tom's or an apple. But let's just go back in it's the upset. If you're listening in the U s. right now. What happened to Starbucks a couple of weeks ago when they closed? To have that day on training about


racial bias. And. They have to have they had to for business imperative, equipped their employees to explain the change of some of the cement policies little said to have a conversation. So I drove up to my my local Starbucks and I asked, how did yesterday go? And for the first time you could have that type of comedy. He felt empowered to have that conversation in a public space with someone who at least had some words, some context and training about something is going on. And the most saying, every company, you know, this is necessary right for every company beating


that stop box. It was. It was a huge business issue is a huge PR issue. And as a brand in the what they stand for, they had to be better in this space, sir. I think you know, the mazes example may be seen more as a just to try and sell more clouds, but and the painting that we're all human beings. We will have these experiences in these connections and. And how do we create our employees be it, whether you're, you know. A C p. G or retailer was sports prime, whatever industry you're in. You're seeing the value of employees as


Brandon ambassadors to helping you build your employees brand or your corporate brand. His books in the whole school of. A thought on this space, so I think Macy's is doing something a lotta more companies are doing, but a lotta brands that some of the best brands that weight, you know, we must passionate about already have that in their DNA. And so this is again a new thing for them. This is something that they've always been advocating and helping their employees do well and do even better. Well, with that, it's time for the Advil five but


before we get to that segment of the show, I do want to take this opportunity to thank my guests again and allow them the each do a shameless plug starting with Dan gold guy. You can find him@dan gold guy or dotcom also find em an ad in a few other places on the internet, including Amazon, saw, let him take over. What would you like to promote down? Oh, absolutely. If you're looking for a quick beat, read for the summer, you can go on to Amazon and by my book killer, executions, and scrubbed decks. It outside the box, look at


obnoxious advertising and marketing jargon, featuring all the buzzword you love to hate and all proceeds from the sale of my book. Go to feed my dog and he is. And it should it should be enough profits sexually chief that one day [laughter] him for a day [laughter] next up, we have some money. You can find him at Campbell's That's the home of a company that we all know very well. The Campbell Soup company tell us what's


going on in your world, Sam, what would you like to promote? You know, I'm gonna not be a shameless corporate. Em an advocate in this case, and I'm just going to give a shout out too. A guy mentioned before called grant McCracken, and he's got a blow cold culture by dotcom said culture B And a lot of what I've been talking about, today's been inspired by em some of the work and some of the writing he has about how the power culture today on today's go, we until about storytelling and maybe even touched on mean making and


some of these other things going on. I just could understand the world so much better help. It's helped me be an even better marketed display messing in his stop, sir. I'm going to give a shout out to grant McCracken, check out his staff. I think anyone listing will find it fascinating, but I will say it will help them be better at what they do. Wonderful, super interesting. And last but not least, we have little fam-. You can find her news Tell us what's going on in your world little, what would you like to promote? And I want you to get a big


head, but I really when applied the pain [laughter]. That's what I want to keep listening and participating because it's going to make our industry and the internet there. Episode 4 99 could be the last one. Not really sure yet [laughter]. For me for more information about me or the show visit, the bean cast dotcom there you can find a complete show archive. You can find out how to consult with me, please. I need your consent consultation dollars. And you can even find out how to


advertise on the program. So check it all out at the being cast a common don't forget transcribed, guest is a great way to get your transcription services done, taken care of. And they happen to be our official transcription partners. If you need a transcription of this episode in about a week, you will see it on the site. So check it out at the being coast icon. And now it's time for the ad fell five or run down of the lowest moments in advertising marketing and public relations from the last week. And first up Facebook


assured us that they didn't want to be in the position of judging the news Dan. So many thought it odd that they would advertise for a news, credibility specialists position which obviously is judging the news. The job opening very quickly disappeared once people pointed this out to them [laughter]. Yeah, you know, Facebook can't seem to do a lot right these days. And from a from a public publicity standpoint, I'm looking at our friend, Bob Hoffman's, daily news. Let a weekly newsletter. He sends it out every Sunday


morning in the headline. Today's Facebook live. Nobody cares [laughter] more more about their data, the data usage of a Facebook. But you know, I. I hope people don't get all their news from Facebook. It's it's it's sad [laughter]. Well, speaking of data problems, mattress company purple got in trouble for not properly disclosing their data usage policies little, but still using their data for targeting ads anymore [laughter].


And I think it's going to cut it these days. We live in a world of GDP. You would think the week of GDP are you'd be a little bit more conscientious about the way your handling your ad targeting, but the there you go. There's always a few male beauty brand hips he got in trouble for their video celebrating pride month Sam by featuring a scene where a lesbian woman said, I'm attracted to women and there's definitely a spectrum between trans woman between authentic sis- gendered


women and everything in between. Basically implying that transgender women are not really women. The brand took all the heat on this. What's your take on this? This is to add to the list, unfortunately, if it's a reminder of the power of understanding and immersing and power of nuance. And so it's a it's a humbling lesson for us all if he if he denied this happens each and every week, I'm not justifying it. Bye bye bye by any means whatsoever. It's just sad because understanding and immersing in the community, you


could have avoided a snafu and it just it just somehow they got they put us out there without doing the work internally to check it out because the minute more of editing one minute more. And so it's just a reminder to us all that we may be unconscious or conscious biodiesel blind spots. And if you don't have the chops internally, you've got to do you gotta be better because you'll get any given to make mistakes. And remember cloud pets, remember them then, you know those little


stuffed pets with a camera and a microphone that were spying on children. Families, sale for toys. R apparently still being sold on Amazon. Parents have been warned at this point. Or the you know you, you would think I know that Amazon can completely control the list of the 3rd party sellers. But this one seems like a no brainer. You know, no cloud putts [laughter]. Well, you know, Alexa is broadcast sending messages that other people thought that story. So I don't know that Amazon to the


best the policeman of this, but I blame the fallen teddy ruxpin if those new teddy ruxpin. We wouldn't have had this idea that did teddy bears could talk [laughter] reenacted snuggle that stupid snuggle bearer my God. This is like the commercial. So creepy and finally MasterCard ran a World Cup promotion little were they would donate a 10000 meals for every goal to particular soccer stars may during the tournament. Which caused fans to wonder why they needed goals as


the reason for doing this in the first place [laughter] it seems like a very self serving way to feed people. I mean, you can't win. Can you with consumers any? It's it's always like shedding light into things that you should have done that. Get us the landfall or try at least. Yeah. I mean, it's just like heart in the right place message in the wrong place. We'll have something to add to this list or just wanted to discuss it. Comment on lying use the hash tag add fell five


pound add fell in the number five. Well, that does it for this week's show if you'd like to subscribe to this pod guest's visit our website at the being cast a common click on the subscribe link. If you're Nigerians listener, we've also provided a direct link to the idea of music store or just search for the being cast in the pod cast directory of vitamins, and whichever pod cast directory you use when you subscribe, please leave reserve. You got a comment, have a question we love to hear from you. Just slender


emails to being cast a female dotcom opening theme was performed by Joe Cybele closing theme by sea jacks. Thanks for listening. I'm Bob nor we'll be back again next week with episode 500 if I feel like it. Who fuel shortages.




Cool beans.